1940 Packards in the service

[Jordan Baker]

Hi everyone

Does anyone have any info on whether or not the Canadian Army would have used 1940's Packards at all. So far what I can find is Fords/Chevs and a few Buicks.

Ive looked through the rest of the site but all that I could find was a photo showing a Packard leading a convoy in the desert.

Any help is much appreciated.

[Bill Murray]

This is probably British, but as close as I could get. The Brits did use Packards and so did the Aussies and of course the US.
Bill

[Bruce MacMillan]

Can't help you with Canadian use but the Brits certainly used them. In 1940 MI6 bought the entire stock of Packards from UK distributor Leonard Williams Ltd.
All colours and styles (dropheads too) were converted to mobile radio stations for a secret wireless group.

[Jordan Baker]

Thanks for the info on the Packards.

[Bill Murray]

Hi Jordan:

I really wish I could help more, especially considering that soft skins are my "thing" and especially US make vehicles used by other countries.

I can verify that Ford, Chevrolet and Buick sedans were "catalouged" official vehicles used as staff cars by Canadian Forces but you probably already have that info.

The problem that you run into with these civvie vehicles is that many of them, particularly if we are dealing with "Flag Rank" officers, were very much an ad hoc affair.

As you no doubt are aware, the Germans and the Japanese confiscated virtually the entire civilian vehicle park in the countries they conquered and occupied. This included, amongst other vehicles, thousands of US make vehicles that were either used by the troops or in the case of luxury vehicles by the Brass.

As the Allies took back these countries, the luxury vehicles that were left and running were in turn confiscated by high ranking Allied officers and put into their service.

The picture is further complicated by what Bruce describes. the outright purchase or requisition of large numbers of dealer's stocks, not only in the UK but also in Canada and the US and I suspect many of the Empire countries.

From a research point of view, these vehicles are a real headache as they for the most part are not carried "On the books" but are just folded into the mix.

Even if they are given official registration plates or military ID numbers on the vehicle, I doubt if we could ever completely track down these ad hoc sort of situations.

As a New Years Eve present, I can say that I would bet that the Canadian Forces had at least a few Packards on charge at some point in time during the 1939-1945 period. Just can't prove it tonight.

Happy New Year.

Bill

[Lang]

Dredging up an old thread. Found a photo of Douglas Macarthur at Strathpine near Brisbane in 1944. His car is a special Packard (they had stopped car production) supposedly only two built - one for him and one for Eisenhower in Europe. I believe this is incorrect and more were made for the highest level officers but have found no more photos.

Lang

[Bob McNeill]

Does that include the ones converted to pickups with Masonite rear bodies as seen in Oz.

[Lang]

Bob,

Perhaps you are thinking of Pontiacs, I would like to see a photo of them if you have one. Packards are seriously expensive cars to be turning into utes!

Lang

[Bob McNeill]

Sorry Lang ,checked my old pics and they where pontiacs

[servicepub (RIP)]

I have the list of Cdn Army vehicles to May 1940 and no Packards are shown.

C

[Bill Murray]

Hi Lang:

I can at least verify that the 1941 and 1942 Packard Clipper models were catalogued as "official" staff cars for Flag Rank Officers according to multiple sources including my copy of TM-9-2800 of September, 1943.

One of the odd things about the hobby of doing research on soft skins for me is that I rarely save on my hard drive photos of otherwise "ordinary" vehicles like these Packards as they can be found in books and on the net by the hundreds.

You can find photos of both Eisenhower's and Mac's Packard Clippers on Google.

Other than what their assigned drivers may have done to smarten up the rear of the interior passenger compartment and the obligatory Olive Drab paint and maybe some lighting modifications, they were pretty much just as they came from the factory.

I hope this helps a bit.

Bill

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Bill Murray

Hi Lang:

I can at least verify that the 1941 and 1942 Packard Clipper models were catalogued as "official" staff cars for Flag Rank Officers according to multiple sources including my copy of TM-9-2800 of September, 1943.
Bill

Bill,

Are you referring to US 'Flag Rank' officers as I have never seen a Canadian general officer in a Cdn Army Packard? I note your reference is a US Technical Manual.
Clive

[Lang]

Thanks Bill,

I am going back to Texas in September to work on my WC53 Carryall and have found a fellow in Dallas who has a Cadillac staff car of the same era. He claims it was a direct military purchase much the same as the Packards - just squirt some green paint on a production vehicle and send it out. Will be interesting to have a look at it.

Lang

[Bill Murray]

Hi Lang & Clive:

I didn't want to clutter up the thread, but maybe this will help also.

According to Bart Vanderveen's excellent military vehicle books as well as Fred Crismon's and a number of other references I have, we can look at this sort of snapshot of Staff Cars.

1. Car, Light.

For use by Staff Level Officers.

Chevrolet, Ford and Plymouth vehicles are most often mentioned and to be seen in Technical Manuals and photos.

2. Car, Medium.

For use by Flag Rank Officers by and large but I am sure a few Colonels and Navy Captains managed to snag one.

Buick, Chrysler, Oldsmobile, Packard and Pontiac are most often mentioned.
I have never seen a Chrysler, Oldsmobile or Pontiac Staff Car in photos yet but certainly the others.

3. Car, Heavy.

Buick, Cadillac, Chrysler and Packard.

These would generally be 7 passenger limousine type vehicles.
I have seen or have photos of all but the Chrysler vehicles.

4. General Comments.

In the main, these cars were purchased in 1941/1942 in the normal manner.
After Dec 7th., car production in the US ceased in more or less April 1942.
Whatever manufacturers or dealers stocks remained at that time were basically taken over by the War Department. At least, the most popular makes. I have no evidence that Lincolns, Mercurys, Studebakers, Nashes, and so on and so on were purchased or taken over by the War Department in the 1941/1942 period.

5. The General Situation 1940/1942.

It should be remembered that the number of US Armed Forces personnel up until early 1941 was extremely small. As an example, my Dad joined the USMC as an Officer in 1935 and his serial number was something like 5027 (Officer serial number) and the Marine Corps had been in existence for like 170 years by then.

Due to both budget restrictions resulting from the Great Depression and the US position of "Neutrality" that existed up until early 1941, non armoured vehicles were not really a priority, especially passenger cars. Lots of photos exist of Flag Rank Officers riding around in Jeeps and Dodge Command Cars at least in combat or near combat areas. Only the "Top Brass" and Flag Rank Officers in non combat areas got civilian sedans after the US entered the war.

As to the Canadian situation, Clive, I really don't have good references other than what you and a few others have provided. (When is your book coming out?). All I know is they purchased in the same time period Ford and Chevrolet vehicles of roughly the same type as the US and the odd McLaughlin (SP?) Buick.

Again, I hope this helps a bit.

Bill