M216 Cdn

[Ken Smith]

I have been fussing around with my GMC M216 Cdn 54-56169, even though it is not a viable restoration project in Australia, as the transfer case and the radiator were removed from it before I was able to take delivery.
I discovered on the top of the rear axle housing a rebuild tag, it states;
REBUILT BY
JAPAN ORDNANCE COMMAND
SHOP O O D
DATE 7 23 56 JO# 5 56
Does this mean anything, possibly a U S Army rebuild, or did Canada have a rebuild depot in Japan.
I am thinking of just tidying it up as a static display because of the rarity of the truck in Australia.
Ken

[David Dunlop]

Ken, my money would be on a major US Military rebuild facility in Japan that had that item on inventory. There used to be a surplus dealer here in Winnipeg years ago that had crates of rebuilt MB axles all tagged as having come out of a similar Japanese facility.

Not sure it still exists but I think it was active back in the Korean War days and probably lasted through the Vietnam War at least.

Way too aggressive an idea for Canada to maintain large military overhaul facilities around the world.

David

[rob love]

A quick google search turns up Oppama Ord Depot. While it would have been primarily in support of the US, there likely would have been agreements for support for Canadian operations. It's also possible that US held spares eventually made their way into Canadian stock in North America. I remember getting (used) body panels from supply that had the US stars on them.


Are there any markings on the truck indicating it's usage?

[Ken Smith]

Thanks to both David and Rob for your input. Oppama Ord Depot has some interesting information on google.
The only markings on the truck are a 6 inch white hollow square on each door under the registration # and white 17 on the top front of the hood on the left hand side, the right hand side had a Maple Leaf on a square which I see has disappeared over the years.
It is also marked inside the doors for speed limits on the autobahn 40mph and other roads 30mph.
I have asked the question a few times in various places but nobody has answered, did Canada have the autobahn speeds in all vehicles or just vehicles that served in Europe.
Ken

[Ed Storey]

Kevin, what is the serial number of your M216CDN?

[David Herbert]

I would have thought it should not be that hard to acquire a rad and transfer box from the US or Canada as there are lots of those trucks lying around unloved.

David

[Ken Smith]

Good day Ed and David,
Ed the frame # is 121602568.

David that is the frustrating part there are lots of trucks being scrapped, but getting the parts to here will be expensive, a good bonnet/hood would be welcome as well.
I have thought about seeing if there is someone that would be willing to do up a package of the stuff I need. When they took the radiator they took the mountings and the fan shroud, and when they took the transfer case they didn't undo the jack shaft to the transmission they pulled the drive shaft out of the rear of the transmission.
Then you have the problem of trying to get ex military items out of USA.
Ken

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

I have asked the question a few times in various places but nobody has answered, did Canada have the autobahn speeds in all vehicles or just vehicles that served in Europe.
Ken

There wouldn't be much point to putting the marking on anything that wasn't in Germany.

[Ed Storey]

Thank you, your M216 is one I do not have a record of.

[rob love]

The EDR viewer only captured data from around 1978 and later. If the vehicle was released before then, it will not show up on the database.


That said,the serial number of 2568 seems a little high for a Canadian dump. I wonder if the serial numbering was consecutive for all Canadian production, regardless of model. Or was this truck bought off US inventory. Then again, I don't think the US military used the m216, but rather the dual wheel M215.



Ken

I'm surprised nobody has asked yet...how about some photos of the truck and it's markings.

[Ed Storey]

121602568 falls within the serial number range of the other M216CDNs I have on record.

[jdmcm]

Further to the rebuild in Japan, these tags are very plentiful on Sherman tank differential units that I have salvaged from the Pacific Northwest

[Ken Smith]

Hopefully a few pictures. Now it isn't pretty hence my idea of having it as a large garden ornament. Definitely straighten the hood/bonnet and just do other little things to tidy it up, like getting a new glass cut for the windscreen.
Chassis number
Front LH quarter
Left door markings
Interior from left side
Speed limit right door

[Ken Smith]

A couple more while I remember how to do the uploads.

Left front top of hood
Right front top of hood
Right door with previous X 2 owners name Ramage Brothers Wangaratta
Rear view
Interior from right door with wild right hand drive conversion.

[Ken Smith]

The right hand drive conversion would have been very hard to steer but will be easy to change back to left hand and probably would be legal, as the universals are similar to those fitted to a lot of modern vehicles these days.
The oil filled, chain drive, left to right conversion on a couple of 972 Diamond T wrecks I have would have been a lot smoother.
Ken

[rob love]

The old deuces are quite common around here, and most parts are fairly plentiful. But as you mentioned, there are very few options for cheap shipping to Australia.



I have heard of sea containers being filled with farm implements the next province over to go down under. You would pretty much have to hitch a ride that way to make it at all economical. As it stands, you would pay many multiple times in shipping what the parts would cost.



I have a complete truck out back for spares that has everything you need. And the original non-directional tires are available brand new on ebay for $125 USD these days.

[jdmcm]

Ken

very likely I will have something going from Western Canada to Australia in the late spring early summer, could probably send a few duece parts along.

John

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

The only markings on the truck are a 6 inch white hollow square on each door under the registration # and white 17 on the top front of the hood on the left hand side, the right hand side had a Maple Leaf on a square which I see has disappeared over the years.

A white serial '17' on a blue rectangle was the vehicle unit sign for an engineer squadron within an infantry brigade group. The red rectangle with a gold maple leaf was the formation sign of the 1st Canadian Infantry Division.

For those vehicles located in Canada, the red rectangle would have been replaced by late 1966. For those in Europe, by 1970.

I have no idea what the six inch white hollow square is for.

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

It is also marked inside the doors for speed limits on the autobahn 40mph and other roads 30mph. I have asked the question a few times in various places but nobody has answered, did Canada have the autobahn speeds in all vehicles or just vehicles that served in Europe.

I don't have an answer to your autobahn speed limit question, but is the fact it has an autobahn speed limit the only reason to think the vehicle may have been in Germany?

Cheers,
Dan.

[Ed Storey]

Perhaps it is the same marking as seen on the door of this M51 5 ton Dump photographed in 1968?

[Ken Smith]

Good day All,
Rob are you wrecking the spares truck out the back?

John, I will PM you about that.

Dan, thankyou for that very useful information. I am basing my European/Germany assumption from the autobahn stencil. That's why I wondered did all vehicles get that stencil as a matter of course. The truck has the same marking on twice, in every position, but not done by the same stencil as the lettering is different sizes and the number on the hood is different sizes.
So where ever it was stationed it was there for a while.

Ed, yes that is the same door marking as the M216.

Thankyou all for your interest in this vehicle.
Ken

[Ken Smith]

Another thing with the old girl is, when I was looking at the rebuild tag on the back axle again yesterday I noticed that the convoy light is still in good order and tucked up in the rear cross member.
I brought the truck home last week from the wrecking yard, where I have had it for sale for 10 years without a nibble, as I was going to fit a 4 cylinder Isuzu diesel in it and use it as my yard crane. Then as discussed in my above posts I thought no just pretty it up put markings back on it and use it as a talking point and something for the grandkids to climb over.
So drawing a line in the sand I made the decision that after owning it for 20 years and never having turned the engine over, that if I could turn it over, I would keep going with it and at least get it drivable enough, so that it can go in my ANZAC Day display. I tried it, and it does turn over and even has compression on a couple of cylinders.
I guess next is to see if I starts.
Ken

[Ken Smith]

This old truck sucks you in, today I was converting it back to left hand drive, which is as easy as I thought it would be except for the usual mixture of Whitworth bolts, UNC bolts, and of course the mix of Whitworth bolts with UNC nuts and vice versa.

Anyway I thought I should see if it turns over on the starter, so a chucked a 12 volt battery in even though it is still a 24V starter. There are pitfalls with that as 24V starters will burn out on low voltage, but I didn't want it spinning over too fast until I check the oil and filters in the engine and transmission.

So after a good read of the wiring diagram and how to start a M216, as shown on Steel Soldiers forum, I pushed the lever and eventually she gave a little turn over.

Todays photos are not of a DND, CMP, or SMP Vehicle but the remains of a Ex US Navy M211 W/Winch cab, this cab with fenders and grille came as part of the deal with the M216.
The M211 cab is half way through a horrible attempt to convert to right hand drive, but it will provide seat mounts which haven't been converted, a right window winder, a left door latch, the correct UNF dash bolts and the passenger dash grab handle. All the M211 gauges have been smashed but the gauges in the M216 all look good. I am going to give them a clean with window cleaner as soon as I can.

The hood for the M211 went to the scrap man, as the fellow who threw it on the truck, told me the people doing the clean up at the yard had a discussion about what it might fit before they threw it on the load.

Interior from right side
USN Registration #
Front view showing some of the bits that are modified.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

Good day All,
Rob are you wrecking the spares truck out the back?

Not wrecking it in any hurry, but it was bought just for spares. My favorite scrapyard also has wrecks for spare parts, along with some NOS parts hidden around. But I am nearly dead center in Canada, which is very wide. To get parts to John at the coast will be a chore. You may be better to see what he has available in his neck of the woods.



Anything for these trucks is available, but the logistics are not on your side. It is about 2100 kms from here to John's.

[Ken Smith]

Thanks Rob I haven't had a look at a map yet to see where every one is located.

I am being realistic with this truck, and I know that while I have it, the best I can hope for is something that I can put in my ANZAC Day display. This amounts to a 300 metre drive to my front paddock for the line up, and maybe a run up the back paddock with the kids.

So from overseas I would like to source a rear output shaft for the transmission and a glove box door. I have thought the cost of a hood from o/s will be the same as the panel shop will charge me to repair the original hood "lots". But if I can get all the ducks to line up and a good hood can make its way here I will be happy with that. There is no hurry for the hood or glovebox door but I want to get the transmission shaft as soon as possible.

I am going to fit a CCKW transfer case and the 3 tailshafts I can get made by a friend, I won't put one to the front axle.

There is a absolutely beautiful M211 that does ANZAC Day parades in Australia and I know I haven't a hope of reaching that level of perfection, with the M216.

So long as mine moves, and the jewellery and paint is presentable, I will be happy.

Ken

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Ken Smith

This old truck sucks you in, .....

The hood for the M211 went to the scrap man, as the fellow who threw it on the truck, told me the people doing the clean up at the yard had a discussion about what it might fit before they threw it on the load.

.....

When my wife was a child, she and her siblings would go to visit their mother's brother and sister on the Saskatchewan farm. In winter there wasn't much for the children to do until snowmobiles were invented. Since then youth and brainless adults have been killing and injuring themselves driving their snow machines beyond safe speeds. But for the little kids, it was a big thrill to be pulled behind the snowmobile riding on the upturned hood of any old car or truck. For a while, there was a 1950s farm truck saved for that purpose, and it would have looked identical to your 2 1/2 ton truck's.

[Ken Smith]

Terry, That immediately brought up visions of Chevy Chase in National Lampoons Christmas Vacation, doing his slide on the big dish in the snow. The only time I have ever seen snow was for a day in June 1974 when I visited some freezing cold place in Victoria Australia.
The other thing is maybe here is something civilian in the hood department that can be changed to fit the M216, it has given me something to think about.
Ken

[Ken Smith]

Some photos of the engine bay, or what remains of it. There is enough bits to make it possible to getting it going.

I pulled the distributor out and was prepared for it to be some exotic Chevrolet, General Motors rare as hens teeth item. When I checked the numbers on google I found it was a good old 1948-215 to 1956 FJ General Motors Holden grey motor distributor. While they are not plentiful anymore there are a few on ebay and condenser and points are available. The same distributor with a different suffix was used up until 1963 by Holden.











The plan is to set up two 12 volt car batteries in the right hand battery box for the starter and set up one 12 volt battery in the left hand battery box for the ignition. All this is very temporary just to get it going, if it starts and runs then I will look at doing something more permanent.

Ken

[Grant Bowker]

I believe that the original distributor has been replaced by a "will fit" unit. Originally, the whole M133, M135, M207, M211, M215, M216 M220 etc. series were fitted with waterproof electrical systems in line with the thinking of the period that MVs should be able to be driven submerged. In these systems the coil and distributor were in a single unit with waterproof enclosure. Similarly the spark plug wires had screw down connectors at each end with gaskets to keep out the water. All very nice while it worked but awkward and expensive for people using the trucks after purchase from the government so often replaced with the equivalent parts off a similar civilian motor (and a pain for restorers who seek original). Bottom line, the system on your truck isn't original but will make it easier for you to maintain in the short run.
It also looks as if the sealed voltage regulator has been removed, perhaps for similar reasons. Maybe more of the electrical system too. If they did gut the electrics, they may have substituted 12 volt civil equivalents which might make the original 24 volt gauges read wonky.

[rob love]

The installation of a civilian distributor is quite common on all the M-series vehicles such as the Dodge, the Jeeps, and the 2-1/2 ton. Not so much for the points or rotors, which are relatively common, but more-so for things like the 24 volt internal coils, the military distributor caps, and those expensive shielded spark plugs. Remember that before the days of the internet, you did not simply hit a buy it now button and your obscure parts were there a few days later....you had to send letters, or stay up until 2 in the morning to call some foreign country.

Easy enough to make right, once you find out if the motor is still good. There is plenty of the M135 stuff around...nobody really wants it anymore.

[Ken Smith]

Grant and rob, the electrics are a mess, but I am not to worried, I am reasonably confident I can do my temporary work around successfully.

I do remember not being able to press a button and summon parts.
When I first got the truck I searched books for ages to find what it was, and eventually found a picture in one of Bart Vanderveen's books. Finding out it was a M216 not a M215 really was a tremendous surprise.

I put an add in Wheels and Tracks for any manuals, and the Belgian Tank Museum offered to photocopy a operator manual for me, for a small fee. I keep the copied manual in the original envelope that it arrived in, from Belgium.
You are correct, how things change!
Ken