Is This One Of A Kind or Production

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All



Spotted this RH Drive M151 in a video, is it a one of kind hand built? Prototype or did they actually build a bunch of them? Not much information connected to the video as to where or when it was taken but from some of the other MVs in particular the CMPs which look familiar I assume it was taken in Australia in particular as it was posted by Keith Webb it was posted 3 years ago. http://vimeo.com/16304424

I sent it to a friend who is a M151 expert and he had never seen one or heard of one. He said the first thing he started to do was think about how it could be done and what special parts it would need.

This lead to the next question if these were built for the Australian Army did they take them to Vietnam or did they us the US versions?

Cheers Phil

[Keith Webb]

Yes that's my video. The vehicle is owned by a South Australian member.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Must be a one off, they never left the factory with RHD.

There are quite a number of RHD WW2 jeeps in Australia, I think at one time it was mandatory for road registration.

H.

[Little Jo]

Hi Keith Phil and Hanno

That is correct. Keith took the video after the big wet in Corowa. The USA MUT belongs to, Aaron Fell, President of the WVCG, (Wartime Vehicles Conservation Group) South Australia. The MUT is genuine and is not one of those cut in half and re-joined again vehicles. Those of you who attended Corowa the previous year will recall Aaron hit a big Kangaroo in the dark in the early hours of the morning on his way to Corowa. Causing some damage to the MUT.

Cheers

Tony

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Guys

Thanks for the information so far, but what is the story on the Right Hand Drive. Was this a one-off conversion or one of a number.

The Corowa info will be of interest to my friend the M151 aficionado he has probably welded back together more M151s than anybody else. Watching him gas weld and X cut body back together is a hoot. He uses coat hangers as welding rod. Apparently coat hangers are a really good match for the M151 steel. When he is done you have trouble knowing where they were cut. That level of reconstruction was probably the reason they changed over to crushing.

His current M151 is the re-coilless rifle version.

Look forward to more comments.


Cheers Phil

[Little Jo]

Hi Phil

I can confirm the MUT in Keith's video was converted to Right Hand Drive from the original Left Hand Drive. No USA made MUT's were ever used by the Australian Defence Forces. As far as I know they were only ever made as Left Hand Drive vehicle .One USA MUT was sent to Australia for evaluating and testing, this vehicle is believed to be still in Australia and in private hands, however Mike Cecil may be able to assist there.

Cheers

Tony

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Little Jo

As far as I know they were only ever made as Left Hand Drive vehicle

Correct, like I said they never left the factory with RHD.

See my old web site on the Mutt: http://www.geocities.ws/fordm151/

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Little Jo

No USA made MUT's were ever used by the Australian Defence Forces.

They were not officially in service, but they were used - see M151A1 "jeep" in RAAF service?

H.

[Little Jo]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

They were not officially in service, but they were used - see M151A1 "jeep" in RAAF service?

H.

Hi Hanno

Knowing first hand how good Aussie forces were at wheeling and dealing, they probably swapped a few cartons of beer for a M151A. Just like their forefathers did to the Yanks in Australia in WW2, watered down whisky for a inflated price.

Cheers

Tony

[motto]

The state of Victoria ceased registering L/H drive vehicles in 1948 except for special purpose vehicles such as mobile cranes and water tankers. I suspect other states did likewise at around the same time. The reason given was that LHD vehicles were supposedly disproportionately represented in road accident statistics.

The result of the ban on registration of LHD vehicles in Victoria was that the vast majority of US sourced WW2 vehicles released to the public were converted to RHD along with most of the M series trucks. John Belfield had a steady flow of work from one of the bigger surplus dealers at one time carrying out RHD conversions on the M series. Johns work was excellent but the variation in the quality of the conversions was enormous as many of them were done in home workshops using whatever came to hand. This particularly applied to '42 Jeeps. Few of them steered anything like the original.

The LHD situation was eased in Victoria only a few years ago with the advent of the Club Permit scheme which allows road use of a vehicle over twenty five years old for either 45 or 90 days for $70 or $140 accordingly. LHD is quite acceptable for permit vehicles.

What the current situation is in South Australia I don't know but the RHD conversion of the M151 would have been necessary to get the vehicle road registered at the time.

David

[rob love]

There were attempts to prohibit the right hand drives from the roads here in Canada in the last few years. Same reasoning given.....possibility of accidents. In the end it turned out to be mostly started by the auto dealers who did not like the relatively inexpensive and low mileage imports stealing business away from them.

[Little Jo]

Originally Posted by motto

What the current situation is in South Australia I don't know but the RHD conversion of the M151 would have been necessary to get the vehicle road registered at the time.

David

Hi David

LHD Vehicles on club registration are legal in South Australia and they do not need to be converted to RHD. When I had my 1942 MB Willys Jeep on club rego I had to have my LHD Jeep checked by the Transport Department who issued an exemption to drive a LHD vehicle on the road, the exemption carried photographs of the Jeep and the document had to be kept in the vehicle at all times.

Cheers

Tony

[motto]

From what you say Tony the situation in SA is similar to that here in Vic whereas it is still not possible to get full registration for a LHD vehicle.
That being the case, I assume the fellow with the M151 wanted to get it fully registered and so had no option but to convert to RHD.
I couldn't imagine anybody wilfully converting such a vehicle to RHD. It surely had to be to comply with a legislative imperative.

Dave

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Guys

Thanks for answering my question, having a RH Drive in a drive on the right part of the world has always made driving a CMP in the US interesting. Never have had any questions from the motor vehicle registry, police or inspection stations about having RHD vehicles.

As I have mentioned before on MLU the only time the police have really taken any notice is when they walk up to the wrong side of the vehicle and start talking to my stuffed parade bear. That story is on my web site.

My friend who reassembles M151 will enjoy all the information.

Cheers Phil

[Little Jo]

Originally Posted by motto

From what you say Tony the situation in SA is similar to that here in Vic whereas it is still not possible to get full registration for a LHD vehicle.
That being the case, I assume the fellow with the M151 wanted to get it fully registered and so had no option but to convert to RHD.
I couldn't imagine anybody wilfully converting such a vehicle to RHD. It surely had to be to comply with a legislative imperative.

Dave

Hi Dave

In SA you can now get full registration for LHD vehicles. Going on club registration is so much cheaper, but you can only use the vehicle on the road for 90 days a year. You must keep a club issued log book filled out if you go on the road and must keep it in the vehicle at all times with your LHD exemption document. If stopped by police and they find your log book is not filled out you can be charged with driving an unregistered-insured vehicle, even if you have the vehicle on valid up to date club rego. So we never forget to complete the log book prior to driving on the road. It is the clubs responsibility to check registration papers and stamp them with the club stamp, issue and check log books once a year. I won't have to worry anymore since I have just sold my 1942 LHD MB Willys Jeep.

Cheers

Tony

[motto]

Hi Phil
Some years ago I was driving across town in a GMC CCKW open cab truck with a #7 Set frame in the back. I was on my way to pick up a bank vault door for my friend Cliff who was riding as passenger.
On a section of divided carriageway there was a police officer standing where he could scan traffic from both directions and stop those of interest.
The Jimmy was obviously of interest as he signalled for me to pull over to the kerb, which I of course did. Walking across to the right hand side of the truck he put his foot on the step, looked at Cliff and asked for his license. I started to reach for my wallet and the officer said,'not you,him', indicating my passenger.
I sat there looking at the big wood rim steering wheel in front of me not knowing what to do next while Cliff, with a puzzled look on his face, started to get his wallet out.
Suddenly the cop realised the situation and said,'Oh, left hand drive! I'm a dill aren't I'? He then walked around my side and conducted the rest of the interview with me.

I believe that the U.S. Postal Service operated a fleet of 30,000 or so RHD vans at one time so as the driver could step straight out onto the kerb. I have no knowledge as to whether the practise of using RHD vehicles continues with U.S. Post and would be curious to know how successful their use was. Perhaps they proved to be a hazard to other road users and have been replaced with conventional vehicles.

David

[Lynn Eades]

David, they had specially built Jeeps.

New Zealand has had on it's statutes a requirement for a LHD permit since about or before WWII. A few years ago it reared it's ugly head and we all had to have permits, to be carried in the vehicle at all times. It then slowly died away and I don't think we are required to carry one any more. It all came up over the import of LHD cars from the states, with government employees, paid to find ways to make our lives more difficult, and as someone already mentioned, the supposed high accident rate, which later prooved to be a jacked up statistic.
At the time government was looking to buy a replacement fleet of vehicles.
the hummer family was a consideration, It was soon dropped because there were no RHD ones being built and the Govt. of the day were not going to allow an exemption. That's my rough recall on the Kiwi perspective.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

A year ago I posted the photo at the top of this thread and asked the question production or one of a kind.

Want to thank everybody for responding, as I mentioned I have a friend Larry Damour who has restored many many M151 series vehicles and Larry was intrigued by it RHD version. Well Larry has actually started building a RHD M151 given his project completion rate I expect this one will be on the road early summer.



This photo is up on our Club Web sight which has recently undergone a major upgrade. I'm sure there will be more photos of this project coming so visit http://mvmvc.org/photos/ if your interested.

Larry also has some other interesting M151s which you will see if you scroll down through the photos.

Cheers Phil

[Bill Murray]

Hi Motto:

I just ran across this thread............

Below is a link to the history of the US Postal Service RHD vans.

As of Saturday, they are still delivering the normal Post Box Mail although they are starting to sound a bit Tatty nowadays.

I had actually thought of buying one off surplus but the Post Office does not maintain them very well and the ones on offer were pretty awful a few years ago.
Edit: Sorry, the link does not seem to work but just google US Post Office Truck and you can get the Wiki story.
Grumman_LLV

Bill

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Bill

Those postal delivery had a hard winter around here, with a couple of them ending up on the drivers side. These were very low or no speed accidents so injuries were fortunately minor. One was struck from the rear and laid over on the drivers side, little body damage until they cut the roof open to get the driver out, truck totalled. The second drove over a snow bank and layer over.


But Larry is build the M151 as a RHD just because he thought it would be interesting.

Cheers Phil

[Bob Carriere]

Rural delivery is now done by RHD little jobies like the USA.....but only 2 wheel drive.

[rob love]

There were DJ-5s in use by the Canadian post office back in the day. Right hand drive, 2 wheel drive with hardtops. Had to talk myself out of one back when CADC was selling them.

[Jon Skagfeld]

Garbage pickup in my part of Ontario is done by RHD specialty vehicles.

[Jack Innes]

Originally Posted by rob love

There were DJ-5s in use by the Canadian post office back in the day. Right hand drive, 2 wheel drive with hardtops. Had to talk myself out of one back when CADC was selling them.

Rob, Here is a second chance. This one has a very dim future & is located at my cottage. 2 wheel drive, RHD, VW engine, AMC transmission. A weight based offer could own it!

I am near Toronto, Ontario & a shiny RHD AMC General just delivered my mail. Yesterday the garbage was picked up by a packer truck with steering wheels & controls on both sides. The truck loads from the front so only one man is required.

Jack

[Ian Johns]

Canada post just finished up a rebuilding program of around 1000 of these little right hand drive vans, engine and body.

[chrisgrove]

Just for interest, though there does not seem to be any problem in registering LHD vehicles in UK, street sweepers are commonly LHD over here.

Chris

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Chris

Never have ever had any problem with registering the CMPs here in the states. But then again the people at the registry have never asked is it RHD or LHD.

I have had some funny police stops as a result of the RHD here is couple of those stories from my website which also has a picture of the bear. http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...the%20Road.htm

"This is my co-driver for Parades a bear in uniform it takes people a while to realize that the truck is right hand drive and that it is not a person in a bear suite driving. The bear is animated so that he waves, peoples reaction that they have been waving to a stuffed animal is interesting most laugh and continue to wave other look somewhere else and try to pretend that they weren't really waving to the bear. Children universally seem to be like him.

The Bear has been stopped by the police twice. Driving a strange (and to be charitable CMPs are strange) looking vehicle on the roads here in the states does result in some funny things happening. When I first got my HUP on the road some 20 years ago a number of times found myself being followed by a police cruiser. Generally after they had followed me for a mile or two I would pull over and stop, never got a ticket, but often did have a pleasant time telling them what a CMP was. In the last few years the reasons for being stopped or followed by police have been pretty funny. The last two stops have both related to the right hand drive and the fact that I have a parade bear that rides in the left hand front seat for parades. The bear is human sized dressed in a Canadian Army uniform the bear is animated to wave in parades.

Riding in the left seat the bear has caught the eye of a trooper and local police officers. The trooper was passing in the opposite direction and pulled a "U"y to come up behind me with his lights on. Then he came up to the left side of the truck to ask the bear for his license and registration. When I said from the other side of the truck "yes officer can I help you" he just sort of waved at me and said get out of here as he walked back to his cruiser. The only thing I could figure was that he was stopping me for driving in a bear suit figuring that it had to obstruct my vision. I always wondered if he ever told anybody he had stopped a stuffed bear.

The next time I was stopped again on the way to a parade I had pulled up to an intersection squared the corner so that I could see both directions from the right hand side. I could see a cruiser parked on the edge of the road up a ways. After waiting for traffic I pulled out made and made my turn. A little way down the road there were the blue lights so I pulled over. Again the officer walked up to the left side of the truck but this one realized that it was a stuffed bear and laughed. When I asked him why he stopped me he explained that he had been parked down road and that the driver, the bear, had not looked either way. So he was going to warn the BEAR to look both ways."



Cheers Phil

[motto]

Thanks for the info on the USPS vans Bill. I was surprised that they were manufactured by Grumman who, I thought, only built aircraft.
Also the USPS actually took delivery of around 100,000 of them not the 30,000 I had heard somewhere. Total production is quoted as being in excess of 140,000.
The postal service is now making moves to secure a replacement for the Grumman LLVs which are at the end of their 30 year life. I wonder if the replacement will be right hand drive?

David