Indian 640 Canadian

[DenisLutman]

Deal!
It's really close: wiring, making sure everything is all tight, etc.

There are some things worth noting about Canadian 640s:
1. There IS a parts book specifically covering the 550 640s Indian sold Canada. Ziggysmotorworks has copies available. Many of my comments are based on the parts book, which is pretty accurate.

2. Sidecars and a passenger seat setup on the rear fender were part of the Canadian package. It's interesting to note that the photos previously posted do not show the sidecars. It's possible they simply weren't mounted on the 640s shown in the above photos.

3. These had neither blackout lights nor oil bath air cleaners.

4. They had the early '40 non-keyed ignition switch.

5. They had an auxiliary toolbox mounted to the rear fender above the taillight. I think this was a larger toolbox than the standard one found on the right side of Sport Scouts.

6. The left side passenger foot peg was actually a kicker pedal mounted to a stud in what is the rear crash bar casting on the frame. The right side passenger foot peg was another kicker pedal mounted to a bracket on the sidecar frame.

7. The rear passenger seat was similar to the British Lycette style with springs radiating out from the front seat mount. The passenger grab rail was a square handle pointing forward.

[DenisLutman]

Originally Posted by rob love

At work (if you can call working on mliitary vehicles in a museum setting work ) I am trying to re-assemble an Indian 640 with sidecar. I believe it to be a Canadian or British service model as it does not have the US style lighting on the rear fender, but rather the single commercial type light. Is anyone here familiar with them, or have a parts manual for the Cdn model? I have a few queries that I can't find the answers to with what little I have found on the net.

Basically, these were olive green Sport Scouts with open fenders. The lights were all standard civilian units.

[welbike]

Hi Denis,

Great! wish I was that far, but have most of the missing parts now.

Please share more info, yours seems to be a truly Canadian one, as it has the duo passenger seat brackets.

Cheers,

Alex

ps, here's mine as it looks now;

[DenisLutman]

Originally Posted by welbike

David, better disregard the sidecar in my picture, that is I believe a pre-war Indian Princess sidecar, not necessarily Military.

Here an original Canadian picture of a 640 with sidecar;




Cheers,

Alex

I suspect this is US Army model sent to Canada for testing since it has the blackout light on the front fender. However, it looks like the Canadian spec seat is mounted to the rear fender and the passenger may have his hands resting on the grab rail.

[DenisLutman]

Originally Posted by welbike

Hi Denis,

Great! wish I was that far, but have most of the missing parts now.

Please share more info, yours seems to be a truly Canadian one, as it has the duo passenger seat brackets.

Cheers,

Alex

ps, here's mine as it looks now;

Yours looks good so far! I love that tag. Looks original! I have a photo from the Indian factory of a bunch of military 640s in final prep and they all have tags. Many of us thought they were issued tags only once they had been sent to various units but the photo casts doubt on that.

[DenisLutman]

This is invaluable if you have a Canadian one.



Here is the page showing the passenger seat parts.

[welbike]

Denis, not sure if there may have been another Canadian contract, that had the b/o lights?

Don't have the Canadian contract parts list yet, waiting till an original comes along, but you have to be careful, Indian was notoriously bad with using pictures from other manuals from other models!!

Suggest you get a copy of the book "An American in Paris" before it gets out of print, there is a wealth of info on military Indians, and while not about the 640, it gives a lot of common background info.

The page with the passenger saddle info looks it comes straight out of the 340 parts list!

Have more pictures I will post today, does your vin # falls into the Canadian contract range? (I keep a register of 640 frame & engine numbers, mine is the highest recorded, 4443 matching frame and engine)

My tag is 100% original, and for a 640 but not for my bike (Brit contract) but was the start of my search for a 640, as everybody has a WLA here in Holland!

Alex

[welbike]

Here's the picture from the factory, with the tags fitted;



Here another one, that could be Canadian??



More to follow, but have to do some work on another bike now!

Alex

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Denis, Alex,

Really interesting stuff! But could you please attach pictures (see link) rather than inserting links? Our experience shows one day the links will disappear and then this thread will be worthless.

Thanks,
Hanno

[welbike]

Like this??

Lex

ps, sorry, never knew how to do this! but you are right, there are several forums where the picture host went bust, and all disappeared

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by welbike

Like this??

Lex

ps, sorry, never knew how to do this! but you are right, there are several forums where the picture host went bust, and all disappeared

Yes, thank you Lex!

Read this and learn how to insert your attachments in the position where you want in your text.

Regards,
Hanno

[welbike]

That was gonna be my next question Hanno!

Will try it here, so some more Canadian pictures of 640's;











And it works! Cheers,

Lex

[DenisLutman]

Originally Posted by welbike

Denis, not sure if there may have been another Canadian contract, that had the b/o lights?

Don't have the Canadian contract parts list yet, waiting till an original comes along, but you have to be careful, Indian was notoriously bad with using pictures from other manuals from other models!!

Suggest you get a copy of the book "An American in Paris" before it gets out of print, there is a wealth of info on military Indians, and while not about the 640, it gives a lot of common background info.

The page with the passenger saddle info looks it comes straight out of the 340 parts list!

Have more pictures I will post today, does your vin # falls into the Canadian contract range? (I keep a register of 640 frame & engine numbers, mine is the highest recorded, 4443 matching frame and engine)

My tag is 100% original, and for a 640 but not for my bike (Brit contract) but was the start of my search for a 640, as everybody has a WLA here in Holland!

Alex

I've seen that book in passing but was never able to thumb through one. Thanks for the tip on it!

I've never heard mention of another Canadian 640 contract other than the 550 we all know about. I'm sure it's possible though in all the discussions I've had with Ziggy and Robin Markey they've never mentioned another.

Yes, my numbers are FDO 1798 and 640 1798, right in the range! Feel free to add that to your list.

You are right about the photos in some of the manuals being right out of another book. To my way of thinking, you can't be faulted if your bike matches the information from the parts books!

How many Canadian 640s are on your list? I would be fascinating to find out where the 550 ended up, what units, etc.

[DenisLutman]

Originally Posted by welbike

Here's the picture from the factory, with the tags fitted;



Here another one, that could be Canadian??



More to follow, but have to do some work on another bike now!

Alex

These photos are interesting because the spokes and hardware (nuts, bolts, etc) appear to be cad plated. These are American models as best I can tell. None of them have the telltale rear fender with three upper fender brackets. The photos of the Canadian bikes seem to show them as parkerized or painted od.

Of course, I don't think the American 640s weren't issued to combat units and probably stayed stateside. It does look like the Canadian ones were issued more to combat units? Too, it's possible that sometime before the Canadian ones were built or starting when they were built, all these things were changed from bright finish to od or parkerized.

[DenisLutman]

Originally Posted by welbike

That was gonna be my next question Hanno!

Will try it here, so some more Canadian pictures of 640's;

Attachment 76156

Attachment 76157

Attachment 76158

Attachment 76159

Attachment 76160

And it works! Cheers,

Lex

These are fantastic! They clearly show the auxiliary tool box on the rear fender. And again, none have the sidecars mounted except that one in the last photo, which also has a different windshield unit and a blackout light. This might be a US model for evaluation.

[DenisLutman]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Denis, Alex,

Really interesting stuff! But could you please attach pictures (see link) rather than inserting links? Our experience shows one day the links will disappear and then this thread will be worthless.

Thanks,
Hanno

Great, I'll use this moving forward. Thanks!

[Rob Beale]

Nice to see a 640 put together. Nice too that the engine and frame numbers match. Well done with the resto.

Years ago when I restored my 741B it used to bug me that many of the pics in the 741 manual were of the 640 model! The extra brace in the rear forks was a giveaway.

I have had the same issues on projects at our local technology museum on which Work-scheme people were used to strip them, and the supervisor had lots of enthusiasm but no mechanical knowledge. I have used old site photos to identify what was parked nearby to search for (and find) missing parts.
Fortunately we exert a lot more control now, and restos proceed more smoothly.

Wish I could visit sometime. The Gregg collection would be great to see.

Rob

[DenisLutman]

Well, after many years work, my buddy and I got my 640 running! It started on the first kick, too. That was major relief, I tell you that!

Will post a video at some point soon. Pretty darn cool old motorcycle!

Does anyone have contact information for Clive Law, who supplied some of the archival photos posted earlier?

Thanks!
Denis

[welbike]

Denis, great that it's running!! pictures please!

Have Clive's email somewhere, he posts here too sometimes, maybe you can look him up? if not send me a pm.

But I got all the pictures from the book, and the ones not used, as I helped him edit the book, so let me know what you're looking for.

Cheers,

Alex

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Servicepub aka Clive Law: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/member.php?u=40

[DenisLutman]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Servicepub aka Clive Law: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/member.php?u=40

Thank you very much!

[DenisLutman]

Originally Posted by welbike

Denis, great that it's running!! pictures please!

Have Clive's email somewhere, he posts here too sometimes, maybe you can look him up? if not send me a pm.

But I got all the pictures from the book, and the ones not used, as I helped him edit the book, so let me know what you're looking for.

Cheers,

Alex

Thanks, Alex! Trying to upload short clips. Let's see if it will work...

[DenisLutman]

Well, here it is. I need to mount the toolbox (bolts to the rear portion of the chain guard and to the upright fender brace).
Need to work out some front end issues (I was guessing at the setup when I put it together).
Runs well, starts first kick!

I NEED that auxiliary toolbox mounted on the rear fender above the taillight that only Canadian 640s had. If anyone knows where I can find one... hint, hint, hint!

[David Dunlop]

Nice machine, Denis!

David

[welbike]

Yes, looks good! no idea about the back toolbox? must have been something standard?? what's the deal with the original paint gas tanks? any markings underneath?

Cheers,

Alex

[DenisLutman]

Thanks, David!

The tool box on the rear fender doesn't seem to be like any other auxiliary toolbox I've seen on Indians. First, it seems to be the only one which mounts directly to the rear fender. All the others I've seen have brackets welded to them and REPLACE one of the upright rear fender brackets.

I think Robin Markey has the correct one so I'm hoping to lay my hands on it for dimension and with luck have someone make one for me.

The tanks came off eBay as a pair. The right one seems to be NOS and even the four plugs in the oil line holes were OD. The left tank even had the Indian 640 id plate on it! It had a couple of small dents but it was solid and had no rust. It's a slightly darker shade of OD than the other tank but that could be from decades of sun, use, etc. Crossed sabers are very slightly visible on that tank but no identifiable lettering.

I opted not to repaint the tanks but cleaned them and then used Caswells to line and seal them.

[DenisLutman]

Does anyone have any additional photos of Indian 640s in service?
Thanks!
Denis

[DenisLutman]

At long last, the 640 hit the road at Oley the other week. Ran great but had to address some exhaust leaks, fuel leaks, etc.

[DenisLutman]

When I got her home and fixed those things I went ahead and mounted the toolbox and mirror.

At this point, I feel like I'm practically an authority on Canadian Army 640s!