Vehicles used by Dutch Prinses Irene Brigade

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

I think this is a rear view of the late type Morris-Commercial Quad shown above.

H4903314, to be precise. Can anyone confirm this is a Morris-Commercial Quad, please?

Image number: 42412
Collection: Nederlands Instituut voor Oorlogsdocumentatie
Caption: De Prinses Irene-Brigade hield op 31 Mei te Amsterdam een parade die afgenomen werd door Major Gen. Foster van de 1e. Canadeesche Divisie. 1st. Can. Army. Wapens waarmee de overwinning werd bevochten.
Image Date: 31-05-1945 (Opname)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Rogier Peeters

In the beforementioned 'opgave auto- en motormaterieel' (Nationaal Archief Toegangsnummer 2.13.71 - Inv.No. 855) the following vehicle types are mentioned (dated 26 March 1943):
- Ford 4/6 ton

What type of vehicle could this be? Ford 60-cwt?

Image number: 73461
Collection: Nederlands Instituut voor Oorlogsdocumentatie
Caption: Den Haag. In de binnenstad.
Keywords: Civilian Population;Canadian Armed Forces;Dutch Armed Forces;Princess Irene Brigade

[Hanno Spoelstra]

White M3A1 Scout Car.

Image number: 140025
Collection: Nationaal Oorlogs- en Verzetsmuseum Overloon / Liberty Park
Caption: 'Amsterdam.' Intocht Prinses Irene Brigade met Scout car.
Image Date Period: 1945

[Rogier Peeters]

Another picture from the NIOD beeldbank. What type of vehicle is this?

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Rogier Peeters

Another picture from the NIOD beeldbank. What type of vehicle is this?

Similar to one Bevan Fenner owned here in Austrlaia - I saw it recently at Len Watkin's place.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Rogier Peeters

Another picture from the NIOD beeldbank. What type of vehicle is this?

Rogier,

It is a Ford WOA2 4x2 Heavy Utility, listed as a "Ford Utility WOA2" in the list of PIB vehicles you posted.

[Rogier Peeters]

Thank you Hanno!

[25pdrfg]

The one with the 25pdr is a Morris Commercial C8 number 5 body Quad same as mine.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another Bedford MW in Dutch service. From the material available, I deduct this Bedford with the sign "Radio Omroep Herrijzend Nederland" was probably the vehicle used by a certain Mr. Robert Kiek, a special reporter who joined the Irene Brigade. His reports were first broadcasted via emergency radio sets of Radio Brussel. Once the Southern part of the Netherlands was liberated a radio set built by Philips at Eindhoven was used. Broadcasting there started on 3 October 1944 and lasted until January 1946.

Pics come from http://geschiedenis.vpro.nl/artikelen/34538521/ and http://beeldbank.nationaalarchief.nl/na:col1:dat244633.




The pic of one restored as this Bedford comes from www.armymotorcars.com.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Bedford with the sign "Radio Omroep Herrijzend Nederland"

At beeldbankwo2.nl I found some more pictures. Image numbers 72467, 72468 and 141139. The second one shows a partial census number "Z5253".

[Rogier Peeters]

Another piece of the Artillery Tractor puzzle:
http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/zoeken...eld/bevrijding

Rier view of a FAT, census number H5558308. I thought that solved it, but then I read this:

"H 5558176 - 5558375 / SM 2546 / Tractor 4x4 F.A. / C291Q / F-GT

However HISTORIC MILITARY VEHICLES DIRECTORY P. 52 has a photo of a Chevrolet FAT marked up as ‘H5558307’!"

(see: http://www.btinternet.com/~gmhistorian/fordlist.htm )

Any thoughts?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Rogier Peeters

Another piece of the Artillery Tractor puzzle:
http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/zoeken...eld/bevrijding

Rier view of a FAT, census number H5558308. I thought that solved it, but then I read this:

"H 5558176 - 5558375 / SM 2546 / Tractor 4x4 F.A. / C291Q / F-GT

However HISTORIC MILITARY VEHICLES DIRECTORY P. 52 has a photo of a Chevrolet FAT marked up as ‘H5558307’!"

(see: http://www.btinternet.com/~gmhistorian/fordlist.htm )

Any thoughts?

Rogier,

Nice find and no worries. The picture David refers to is actually depicting a restored Chevrolet CGT which had a known PIB census number off a Ford FGT applied. I think I pointed this out before, must have been on the old forum.

Hanno


Ref: http://www.haagsebeeld
bank.nl/hga:col1:dat327858


Edited to add larger scan:

Source: https://haagsgemeentearchief.nl/medi...0-b85fd4c4c3b6

[Rogier Peeters]

Thanks for the clarification Hanno, so we are indeed dealing with a Ford in the Haags archief foto?

I'm on the search for more pics now and found this. It's a vehicle of the Dutch troops as well. Any thoughts on the vehicle type would be appreciated.

Source: http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat298428

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Rogier Peeters

Thanks for the clarification Hanno, so we are indeed dealing with a Ford in the Haags archief foto?

From this angle I cannot see features to identify it as a Ford or Chevrolet. But based on the known census number range, it is a Ford FGT.

I'm on the search for more pics now and found this. It's a vehicle of the Dutch troops as well. Any thoughts on the vehicle type would be appreciated.

Great find! It looks like a Standard Utility Truck or "Tilly". See the attached pic (source: http://www.standardmotorclub.org.uk/...ures/tilly.htm)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Rogier,

I went through your list of vehicles, but cannot see the Standard Utility Truck listed, only Austin Utility Trucks.

Originally Posted by Rogier Peeters

In the beforementioned 'opgave auto- en motormaterieel' (Nationaal Archief Toegangsnummer 2.13.71 - Inv.No. 855) the following vehicle types are mentioned (dated 26 March 1943):

- car 2-str 4x2 utility Austin

- Austin Utility 4 str

- Austin Ten util

Hanno

[Rogier Peeters]

Hanno,

thanks for identifying the car in the photo. The Standard Utility indeed does not appear to be in this list. My thoughts are twofold:
1. the list is from March 1943, the photo from 1945;
2. the vehicle does not belong to the Irene Brigade, but probably to the staff of 'Bevelhebber Nederlandse Strijdkrachten'. For comparison I attached a photo of Prins Bernhard's Mercedes.
(http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat246344)


I also found a photo of an Allied Opel Blitz in The Hague. According to the caption it is Canadian. Unfortunately unit markings are not clearly visible, however the marking on the left fender does look like the Irene Brigade marking.

Rogier

http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat246553

[Rogier Peeters]

Hanno,

the photo that you originally started this topic with is also available in High-resolution:
http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat246646

The census number is H5558309.

At the Nederlands Fotomuseum website I found a photo showing a White Scoutcar, also the census number can be seen. I have attached this photo for easy reference.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Rogier Peeters

thanks for identifying the car in the photo. The Standard Utility indeed does not appear to be in this list. My thoughts are twofold:
1. the list is from March 1943, the photo from 1945;
2. the vehicle does not belong to the Irene Brigade, but probably to the staff of 'Bevelhebber Nederlandse Strijdkrachten'. For comparison I attached a photo of Prins Bernhard's Mercedes.

Rogier, either option could be true, though I would place my bets on it being with the PIB. Like you said, the picture was made two years after the vehicle stock list was drawn up. By that time the "F.A. Guy tractor" was replaced by the Ford FGT as we have seen here.

I also found a photo of an Allied Opel Blitz in The Hague. According to the caption it is Canadian. Unfortunately unit markings are not clearly visible, however the marking on the left fender does look like the Irene Brigade marking.

Most likely PIB too, although the Canadians were renowed for "liberating" equipment.

Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Rogier Peeters

the photo that you originally started this topic with is also available in High-resolution:
http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat246646

The census number is H5558309.

Edit - inserted new link to source: https://haagsgemeentearchief.nl/medi...1-01985adb472a



Rogier,

Thanks. One month later H5558309 was also pictured in Amsterdam!

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Another FGT with census number H5558309 during the "Defilé der Zegepraal der Canadezen", 29 June 1945, at the Dam, Amsterdam.

[Rogier Peeters]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Rogier, either option could be true, though I would place my bets on it being with the PIB. Like you said, the picture was made two years after the vehicle stock list was drawn up. By that time the "F.A. Guy tractor" was replaced by the Ford FGT as we have seen here.

Hanno,

thanks for your comments. However the Standard Utility does not bear Irene Brigade markings, neither does the unit number '120' seem to be one of the brigade's units.

Does anyone have some thoughts on the Opel's rear body? It does not seem to be a standard cargo bay.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Two more pictures of FGTs, H5558307 and H5558311, from www.beeldbankwo2.nl

Beeldnummer: 203916 en 203918
Collectie: Stadsarchief Amsterdam
Beeld Datum: 31-05-1945
Trefwoorden: Huldigingen; Parades; Prinses Irene Brigade; Voertuigen
Geografie: Amsterdam; Noord-Holland; Nederland
Beeldsoort: Foto
Auteur/Fotograaf: J.W. Hofman
Gebruiksrechten: Stadsarchief Amsterdam
Gewijzigd: 18-05-2010

[Hanno Spoelstra]

This picture, found on the Prinses Irene Brigade museum website - www.fuseliers.net - clearly shows a CMP truck in the background.

While Rogier's listings does not specifically confirm nor exclude CMPs, we need do some more research to find out if CMP trucks were actually used by the Brigade.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Fordson WOT2 found on http://www.gemeentearchiefroosendaal.nl.

Picture was taken in July 1945 and it is labelled as a border patrol truck.

Titel: Roosendaal: Grensbewakerstruck op de Markt; Rina Goyvaert, Mientje van 't Westende, Truus Nielen zittend op motor
Nummer: K16017
Afdeling: Gemeentearchief Roosendaal
Datum inhoud: juli
Jaar inhoud: 1945

[Rogier Peeters]

Nice find Hanno. Any thoughts on the markings (unit number (?) 350 on the right fender and number 40401 on the left fender)?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Rogier Peeters

Any thoughts on the markings (unit number (?) 350 on the right fender and number 40401 on the left fender)?

Rogier,

Not really, I was wondering if this could be an ex-PIB WOT2 impressed as a border patrol truck? It could explain a mix of markings not fully attributable to the PIB. And of course the orange lion emblem was adopted on all Army vehicles after the war. But I would not think it was common by July 1945 already.

[Rogier Peeters]

Thanks Hanno. I was thinking it may have belonged to one of the newly-formed army units formed in 1944 - 1945 an not necessarily be ex-PIB. For instance on the beeldbank WOII I came across a photo of a Stoottroepen Mercedes-Benz, marked with the Dutch lion emblem (and the stoottroepen markings), see images below.

Could anyone identify the exact type of Mercedes?

[chrisgrove]

Originally Posted by Rogier Peeters

Thanks for the clarification Hanno, so we are indeed dealing with a Ford in the Haags archief foto?

I'm on the search for more pics now and found this. It's a vehicle of the Dutch troops as well. Any thoughts on the vehicle type would be appreciated.

Source: http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat298428

This Standard Utility looks to me to be carrying the sign of the Czech Brigade (lion on blue shield with red cross). Trouble is, with pics of poor resolution, that the Dutch (PIB), Belgian and Czech Brigades all carried a reasonably similar lion (at least to my non-heraldicly trained eyes), and it is quite hard to tell them apart.

However, one of the items on this thread has already remarked that the AOS number 120 does not seem to be recorded as having been issued to anyone!

Aren't these challenges interesting?

Chris

[Rogier Peeters]

Thank you very much for your thoughts.

For comparison I've added the Dutch lion emblem as used by the PIB and the emblem of the Bevelhebber van de Nederlandse Strijdkrachten.

For the emblem of the Czech brigade see link. The Czech brigade seems to have used two-digit AOS numbers and was not in the Hague at the time the photo was taken.

[Rogier Peeters]

This week I visited the Nationaal Archief and recorded some more info from the March 1943 vehicle listing. However please note the brigade also received lots of new vehicles before the invasion of mainland Europe.

Ford 4/6 ton
The Ford 4/6 ton trucks had census numbers L1284652 - L1284657. Hanno posted a photo of the well-known L1284657, the one that's after the twin in Berlin .

Some more details about the 15 cwt trucks
The March 1943 list mentions the following 15 cwt trucks:
- truck 15 cwt 4x2 GS Ford (Platoon truck) census numbers Z1284570 - Z1284618 (Chassis numbers in the 7042xxx range)
- Fordson 15 cwt (platoon truck) 34 trucks numbered L1284700 - L1284714, L1284754 - L1284765, L1284769 - L1284771, L1284773, L1284780 - L1284782 (chassis numbers in the 5801xxx and 6144xxx range)
- Morris 15 cwt office L1284718, L1284750, L1284772
- Bedford 15 cwt (watertank) L1284766
- Bedford 15 cwt (truck) L1284744 - L1284745, chassis numbers MWD.29815 and MWD.31335

CMP trucks
The listing includes a number of lorry 30 Cwt 4x4 anti-tank portee Chevrolet, with the body work listed as ‘lorry' (probably portees converted to lorries). The census, engine and chassis numbers are as follows:
L1283906 - 3756113 - 1844031739
L1283907 - 3757924 - 1844030844
L1283908 - 3758799 - 1844031632
L1283909 - 3761417 - 1844031892
L1283910 - 3757652 - 1844031707
L1283911 - 3743653 - 1844032550
L1283912 - 3757996 - 1844030616
L1283913 - 50686 (?) - 1844031330

The chassis numbers are similar to the ones found on the 30 cwts in contract S/M 2028 as given in http://mapleleafup.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3824 .

Unidentified car
Finally, I would like to invite for opinions regarding the make and type of car in the attached picture. The photo found on the Haagse beeldbank at http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat254377 .

[Bill Murray]

Hi Rogier:

Your vehicle is a Skoda, almost for sure a Popular of 1938 manufacture.
Thanks for an unusual photo, it is amazing where some of these cars ended up in 1945, 7 years and thousands of kilometers from home after a brutal war.

Bill