Vehicle ID Please

[David Dunlop]

This is apparently a scrap yard in Hamburg, Germany in 1958.

Can anyone ID the vehicle top centre of the pile with the canvas tilt framework attached?


David

[Jordan Baker]

I believe that is a Loyd Carrier

[Jakko Westerbeke]

It is indeed a Loyd Carrier:

[Ed Storey]

That is an interesting photograph for two reasons; first, I did not know that the Lloyd Carrier was used until the late 1950s and second, it was taken at the same time that the Canadian Brigade stationed in Northern Germany was also disposing of its' Universal Carriers.

[rob love]

And your photo is also interesting Ed. It looks like a m62 wrecker with non-us pattern tires, and a carrier with the domestic dnd numbering system. Did they use that system in Germany post war?
I did not know you could lift a carrier evenly using just two sling points.

[Ed Storey]

I certainly would not try that two point lift at home! Yes, the M62 Wreckers replaced the wartime Diamond T Wreckers being used by the Canadian Brigade in Northern Germany in the mid-1950s. In Germany, the new M-Series vehicles used what is now the CFR system while the older wartime vehicles all employed the domestic DND numbering system.

Of course you have to keep in mind that at the same time any RCAF M-Series vehicles used the RCAF vehicle registration system.

[rob love]

I suppose the headlamp on that carrier would help prevent it from rolling onto it's side.
We still had a very old RCAF water buffalo when I was at MooseJaw in the early 90s for waste fuel. I think it had the RCAF numbering system on it.

The Deuce is interesting. A very bald tire on the front left, an almost bald tire on the intermediate left, and a almost new trak-grip pattern tire on the rear left. Guess they didn't get the memo about the rears supposed to be the relatively same size.

The cargo box on it is different from any that I have seen. It is missing the angular re-enforcement over the wheel wells. It also seems to have a straight up exhaust stack, missing the curve on the top of the Cdn trucks. I wonder if this was an early purchase from US stocks?
It also has some funny mirrors, but likely a locally sourced improvement over the little 5" round mirrors that came standard on those trucks.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

That is an interesting photograph for two reasons; first, I did not know that the Lloyd Carrier was used until the late 1950s and second, it was taken at the same time that the Canadian Brigade stationed in Northern Germany was also disposing of its' Universal Carriers.

The ones in these well known photos taken at a scrapyard in Hamburg are British. But it would not surprise me if the Canadian Army disposed of their surplus equipment in Germany in the same way.

[Ed Storey]

Originally Posted by rob love

The cargo box on it is different from any that I have seen. It is missing the angular re-enforcement over the wheel wells. It also seems to have a straight up exhaust stack, missing the curve on the top of the Cdn trucks. I wonder if this was an early purchase from US stocks?
It also has some funny mirrors, but likely a locally sourced improvement over the little 5" round mirrors that came standard on those trucks.

I don't know of any US manufactured M135s that were used by Canada other than the ones issued to our forces in Korea and Japan. As far as I know, unlike the M62 Wreckers and M38A1 Jeeps used in Korea, the M135s were not shipped back to Canada as there was already enough domestic production to fill our needs. I suspect therefore that the RCAF M135CDN is an early Canadian production model.

[rob love]

I did see a US produced very early bowser at a local deuce graveyard. It had the prefix XM on the model number, but was clearly CFR'd. I had a look back 13 years here on MLU and here is what I wrote about that truck at the time:

I found one cab had the data plate of the XM222 water truck. Serial number was somewhere around 0015, with a build date of 1952, and the crossed cannon ordnance corps inspectors mark stamped on the data plate. Obviously an early American made truck, but interestingly had a Canadian CFR number on the dash, with a 1954 model year.

Perhaps we had some trials M135, and the army, in typical fashion, got rid of the non-conforming trucks by generously passing them on to the airforce. Or we may have simply mirrored the US early production. I note the airforce deuce does not have the hi-lo bow system in it's sideracks.

[Ed Storey]

Good point, as there is certainly the potential for that RCAF vehicle to have been a pre-production vehicle. It is amazing that there is still so much to learn about the story behind the Canadian M Series vehicles.

[Ed Storey]

I did a little checking through some of my manuals and discovered these M135CDN images were used to illustrate the Data Summaries. This one on the March 1952 edition,



and this one one the March 1972 edition.

[rob love]

Interesting. Both boxes are the early type. The first truck has the low tarp on it, where the second truck has the hi-lo adjustable tarp.

I'll have to keep an eye during my travels for the early box, and see what serial range they fall in. Inquiring minds want to know.

[Ed Storey]

There is a strong possibility that the vehicle used on the 1972 Data Summary was a LETE vehicle which could perhaps explain why an early box vehicle was used on the publication as they held some strange vehicle variants.

I am sure there is a landfill somewhere outside of Ottawa filled with the documentation on the M135/M211CDN vehicles.