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  #241  
Old 15-06-17, 05:10
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Hi Mike, interesting thought to make a complete drive train but I think I'll go with plan "A" That's what they look like on the underside. It is definitely not pretty but 'What the eye doesn't see, the heart doesn't grieve' and I won't tell anyone if you don't A bit of patching as well. I will be spending the rest of my day riveting.
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  #242  
Old 15-06-17, 05:31
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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Thanks Colin, I appreciate you putting up those images.

Regards

Mike
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  #243  
Old 18-06-17, 11:13
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I need some more 5/16 rivets for my floor and I only have a lot of 3/8 but I found a place in Australia that have them and they're only about 25cents each so I have ordered some. In the mean time I thought I better get on with refurbishing the wheel stations and what a job that has been.
These must have been on there for decades as it has taken me 3 days to get them off with the help of lubricant, porta power, Jack hammer, Swearing, sledge hammer. Without the portapower, there is no way I would have got them off.
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  #244  
Old 18-06-17, 11:16
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There is a combination of English wheels and Australian wheels on there. It is quite rewarding when the last one comes off and a big sigh of relief. In case you were thinking that the Porta Power was just sitting on the end of the axle, I machined up a solid spacer that held in position so it wasn't dangerous.
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  #245  
Old 18-06-17, 12:22
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Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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For those that don't know, The Australian Carriers and the Vickers light tank (MkVIb) had wider wheels than British and Canadian carriers.
The Wheels Colin refers to as British, are of the same style as a std. U.C. wheel, but are wider. They are the original VLT MkVIb wheels.
The track has the wider spaced horns and Australia adopted this track for its LP2 and LP2A series of carriers. (in doing so, it changed the spoke style of the wheels) This move (wider wheels/ track horns) apparently made the Australian carrier, less likely to throw its track.
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  #246  
Old 18-06-17, 13:21
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Wow, Colin, that is an entire project in its own right. There probably isn't a single movable fitting there that has actually done so in a VERY long time.

Interesting about the wheels and tracks being similar to the Australian Pattern Carrier. A couple of the suspension spring sets look a bit suspect. Do you know if they were shared with the APC as well? That could make things a bit simpler as you move deeper into this part of the restoration.

Hope the weather was cooler for you over those three days.


David
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  #247  
Old 18-06-17, 19:54
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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Lynn,

Good point regarding the effect (ie less likely to throw tracks) of the design changes, however the reasons for the variations in design from the British MG/Bren carrier were not in regard to improvements in performance but "...firstly to standardise certain parts with similar parts on the light tank [Vickers Mk6A] and secondly to suit Australian production methods. The War Office was not advised before the variations were taken in hand." (Dept of the Army Memo to Secretary Military Board, 22-10-1941).

These variations caused some considerable problems, particularly in the ME when units were handed both Brit and Aust built carriers, and the spares situation for the Aust carriers did not keep pace with the usage. Result: grounded Aust carriers where available Brit spares could not be fitted.

Mike
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  #248  
Old 18-06-17, 22:30
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Mike, thanks for the info. my conclusions are based on what I have seen on the ground, and the odd old photo. My knowledge of actual history and details is somewhat lacking.
I made the incorrect assumption that the wider track/ wheels arrived with the MkVIB, but were obviously already in place with the MkVIA
There is a photo of new track going on A VLT in the desert and this is where I drew my conclusion that Australia had taken up Vickers track improvement when designing the LP2. If you know the photo, are you able to date it?
I assume these VLTs came from the Vickers factory already fitted with this wider wheel, design of track in the late 30s, when Australia first bought them?
With the longer track of the VLT, I see the potential for throwing track and I imagine the VLT would have had big issues with that problem, had it not gone to the wider rubber.
I note that in the same vein, the Loyd carriers had added cleats to its sprockets. (I am not sure if this was more about reducing the wear rate or to help "stabilise" the track?)
The Canadians later changed the design of the sprocket on its U.Cs. for similar reasons.
Again, thanks for the clarification.
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  #249  
Old 18-06-17, 22:51
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David, yes that was an epic and nearly as big as Ben Hurr fortunately it's winter here and around 18c most days. Most of the springs are more than just suspect but I have replacements.
Lynn/Mike, That is very interesting about the track. Unfortunately I don't have enough original wheels for both. For these tracks to come off, they would certainly have to be extremely loose as they certainly hug the sprocket at the front and the tensioner idler at the rear. Not to mention there is no track displacement. It is great that there is still information around about these tanks. The construction of these is really quite amazing.
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  #250  
Old 18-06-17, 22:54
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For an attempt at clarity:
Australian carrier track is "lead plugged" (has a shorter plain pin, no head) The VLT (British wide horned) track has exposed formed heads as per British and Canadian carrier track.
The VLT in question came with wheels and rubber nominally 1/2"wider than carriers, but with spokes ("T" section) that look the same as British or Canadian wheels.
The Australian carrier wheels which (normally) have "H" section spokes are interchangeable, as is the track between the Aust. carrier and the VLT.

Colin, the track is most likely to come off when "sidling"(travelling along the side of a hill) It is not good practice to do this in a carrier. apparently we should go straight up and straight down. I don't know how the VLT goes in this situation.
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Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.II. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....

Last edited by Lynn Eades; 18-06-17 at 23:01.
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  #251  
Old 19-06-17, 03:04
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Here's a few pics of the numbers and markings on one of the original Vickers wheels.
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  #252  
Old 19-06-17, 03:11
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Now this raises an interesting question! As I am under the understanding that these tanks were made in 1936 as stamped on quite a few panels and the engine, but we never received the ten in Australia until 1939.
The date on the wheel looks to be 1938. So! were they made to aust specs in England prior to shipping, or were they made in Australia before they came here and changed once they arrived or needed replacing.
The Chicken or the Egg. I will have a close look at the other wheels to see if there is a clearer date.
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  #253  
Old 19-06-17, 03:21
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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Colin,

Tanks were normally purchased with a suite of spares, particularly fast wearing spares like wheel assemblies (the tyres chew out). It is rare indeed to have a tank survive its service life with the original 'when assembled' set of road wheels - normally these are changed as required. Spares were not always supplied 'up front' but on a yearly basis depending upon the terms of the contract. So it would not be unusual to have wheels manufactured and supplied after the tanks entered service.

In the case of the Vickers Mk6A, these were built as standard - I don't think there was any particular 'Aust standard' for that small batch - and they arrived circa Sept 1937, not 1939.

Wheels supplied as spares could have a number of production dates, and therefore those on the tank now could well have a range of production dates. It will be interesting to see what other dates/production details become evident as you blast the crud off the rest.

Mike

Last edited by Mike Cecil; 19-06-17 at 03:42.
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  #254  
Old 19-06-17, 08:18
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Mike, I think you have misunderstood the wheel part. I have some other English wheels that are the same as the English looking wheels on the Vickers but they are about 15mm wider than the English carriers ones. If fact what I will do is take a few photo's of the two side by side so the difference can be seen clearly. I have got enough original Vickers wheels to complete one and I'll have to settle for the carrier ones for the other. Beggars can't be choosers.
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  #255  
Old 19-06-17, 08:35
Andrew Rowe Andrew Rowe is offline
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Hi Colin , if you were cunning , you could turn the rubber off the old rims down to the steel and then get good LP ones and cut the hubs out of those and machine them back to the right size, and press them onto the original rims as a press fit....don't we just all love machining stuff! cheers Andrew.
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