Bren guns on post war jeeps

[donjunior]

Was the Bren gun mounted on any post war jeeps? Specifically, the M38 or M38A1? If so, does anyone have any photos of same? Thanks, Darcy

[Eric B]

I have seen photos of Bren guns mounted on a dash mount of UN white M38A1 with sand tires. I think these were US provided vehicles and we adapted them for our use.

I have not seen them mounted on any other post war jeep photos being used within Canada.

thanks

Eric

[Mark W. Tonner]

Darcy;

As quoted by Eric B.: "I have seen photos of Bren guns mounted on a dash mount of UN white M38A1 with sand tires.

The two photos (Source: DND) below are of Canadian Reconnaissance Squadron patrols in the Sinai (UNEF) in the late 1950's, early 1960's.

Cheers

[malcolm erik bogaert]

any of the UN troops I saw fielded the converted Bren known as the LMG 7.62 always refered to as the Bren hope this clarifies the matter for you best regards malcolm

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally Posted by malcolm erik bogaert

any of the UN troops I saw fielded the converted Bren known as the LMG 7.62 always refered to as the Bren hope this clarifies the matter for you best regards malcolm

Unlike the old Lee Enfield actions, the Bren was plenty strong enough to handle the extra pressure of the 7.62mm cartridge. For that matter, I never truly understood why we didn't field our 7.92mm Brens, to compliment the Besas used in English tanks??

[malcolm erik bogaert]

Jiff the way I understand it is our Nato partners voted for 7.62....regards malcolm

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally Posted by malcolm erik bogaert

Jiff the way I understand it is our Nato partners voted for 7.62....regards malcolm

Actually Malcolm, I meant in WW2, pre-NATO...

[malcolm erik bogaert]

Roger that Jiff however will have to take you to task on your comments.ref enfield rifle not being up to taking 7.62 rounds...in fact we had a rifle(SNIPER) and I think it was called a Fulton Conversion...anyways we had them on strength in our Sqn...best regards malcolm

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally Posted by malcolm erik bogaert

Roger that Jiff however will have to take you to task on your comments.ref enfield rifle not being up to taking 7.62 rounds...in fact we had a rifle(SNIPER) and I think it was called a Fulton Conversion...anyways we had them on strength in our Sqn...best regards malcolm

The Lee Enfields would take 7.62mm conversions all right, but the trouble was that the excess pressure would stretch the receivers over time, leading to all sorts of headspace problems. The rifle was the fastest and most reliable bolt action in the world until conversion... but it was of course made moot by the introduction of the excellent FAL series of rifles (L1A1, C1A1 etc), so just as well. Nowadays our snipers use Mauser-based actions with even more powerful rounds than the "old" 7.62.

Ref the Bren, I was referring to the excellent 7.92mm Bren we manufactured over here for export (primarily to China). They were very good weapons and would have complimented the 7.92 Besas our British-based armour carried.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball

Nowadays our snipers use Mauser-based actions with even more powerful rounds than the "old" 7.62

We actually presently employ two types of Sniper rifle:

- C3A1 Sniper Rifle
- Long Range Sniper Weapon (LRSW)

The ammunition used in the C3A1 Sniper Rifle is 7.62mm x 51mm NATO Match Ball
The ammunition used in the LRSW is Amax .50 cal Match Ball



Cheers

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

We actually presently employ two types of Sniper rifle:

- C3A1 Sniper Rifle
- Long Range Sniper Weapon (LRSW)

The ammunition used in the C3A1 Sniper Rifle is 7.62mm x 51mm NATO Match Ball
The ammunition used in the LRSW is Amax .50 cal Match Ball



Cheers

The C3A1 is primarily a training rifle now....it was actually almost phased out but has been retained to save wear and tear on the C14 timberwolf sniper rifle, in .338 lapua.

I also saw an AR10 the other day all dressed up in Canadian garb. That is a .308 cal M16 type rifle. A small quantity were purchased for the no2 in the sniping team, and while these were supposed to be phased out as they broke, the troops love them so the weapons techs keep patching them up.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally Posted by rob love

The C3A1 is primarily a training rifle now....it was actually almost phased out but has been retained to save wear and tear on the C14 timberwolf sniper rifle, in .338 lapua.

I also saw an AR10 the other day all dressed up in Canadian garb. That is a .308 cal M16 type rifle. A small quantity were purchased for the no2 in the sniping team, and while these were supposed to be phased out as they broke, the troops love them so the weapons techs keep patching them up.

I didn't know we still had AR-10s! About twenty years ago I had a chance to fire an original in both semi and full automatic modes and I found it infinitely better than any of its comtemporaries, at least in full auto mode!

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by rob love

... C14 timberwolf sniper rifle ...

Rob;

I'd forgotten about the C14 Timberwolf ... it totally slipped my mind ... old age I guess ...

Cheers

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball

I didn't know we still had AR-10s! About twenty years ago I had a chance to fire an original in both semi and full automatic modes and I found it infinitely better than any of its comtemporaries, at least in full auto mode!

These are relatively new Armalite AR10s, purchased in the last four or five years. The guys claim to have more kills with the AR10 than with the C14 that it is there to support. As the AR10s fall into disrepair, they are supposed to be replaced with the C7CT, a heavy barrelled version of the .223 M16 type rifle, made by Colt Canada (formerly Diemaco).

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally Posted by rob love

These are relatively new Armalite AR10s, purchased in the last four or five years. The guys claim to have more kills with the AR10 than with the C14 that it is there to support. As the AR10s fall into disrepair, they are supposed to be replaced with the C7CT, a heavy barrelled version of the .223 M16 type rifle, made by Colt Canada (formerly Diemaco).

You're not talking about a version of the U.S. SR-25 are you? I've seen those in action and they're pretty impressive, although I never got to shoot one.

The AR-10 I fired was an original, predating the AR-15/M-16 series of rifles. It was one hell of a rifle.

[malcolm erik bogaert]

some years ago there was a masive batch for sale in Netherlands..at £250..00 per weapon...wanted one but my then wife wouldnt let me...so bought ex army SLR instead with Hensolt Scope..and used it on the Dear(no not her) with remmington 308........forst ranger said to me one day what will it do....put in mag of standard 308 ball...see that dry stone wall what wall....cheers malcolm

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball

You're not talking about a version of the U.S. SR-25 are you? I've seen those in action and they're pretty impressive, although I never got to shoot one.

The AR-10 I fired was an original, predating the AR-15/M-16 series of rifles. It was one hell of a rifle.

The side of this rifle was clearly marked "Armalite AR10" I didn't check the other side to see if it was select fire or not.....I presume it was but can't say for sure.

[maple_leaf_eh]

The 7.62 #2's rifle is a good idea. I am very surprised to see that these are not being properly supported. I had the idea these rifles were chosen as a long range standoff 'assist' for the guy on the .50cal, and therefore a legitimate part of the weapons family. At a glance the AR looks just like everyone elses' C7 rifle.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As for MGs on M38A1s, I saw a fellow who had his own machine gun mount on a Jeep. It replaced the windshield using the same hinge pins and over-centre locks. The idea was to hose clamp the barrel of a C2 LMG (a pi$$-poor replacement for the BREN in the opinion of anyone who shot both) to a T-spud. On the base was a butt keeper to secure the C2 across the vehicle, and a short length of tubing to hold the spud. I don't have any photos of this mount and am describing it from memory. The BREN mounts in the photos elsewhere in the thread have a more elaborate arm in place of the spud.

[malcolm erik bogaert]

interestly i have just aqquired a 7.62 LMG Bren from Sal at MDW Supplies Ltd in Birmingham UK...its to go in my champ which is being restored as used in Radfan Operation in Aden in the early 1960's...best regards malcolm

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

Originally Posted by donjunior

Was the Bren gun mounted on any post war jeeps? Specifically, the M38 or M38A1? If so, does anyone have any photos of same? Thanks, Darcy

Post-war Canada mounted single .303" Bren Guns on Ferret Scout Cars Mk. I and on Willys M38 and later, M38A1 jeeps. The Ferrets had a Bren in Canada and with UNEF. As I understand it, and as shown in some photos, the jeeps were supplied by the U.S. military rather than being Canadian made versions. These vehicles were later painted white.

Canada did not adopt the 7.62 NATO version of the Bren, but went with the FN C2 then C2A1 instead.

Contact me and I can provide some historical photos of Canadian UNEF operated jeeps with Bren Gun fitted as I gathered UNEF pictures during the research for my small book THE FERRET SCOUT CAR IN CANADIAN SERVICE.

Colin Stevens
Seaforth72 at gmail dot com

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Colin Macgregor Stevens

Post-war Canada mounted single .303" Bren Guns on Ferret Scout Cars Mk. I and on Willys M38 and later, M38A1 jeeps. The Ferrets had a Bren in Canada and with UNEF. As I understand it, and as shown in some photos, the jeeps were supplied by the U.S. military rather than being Canadian made versions. These vehicles were later painted white.

See my web page on M151-series jeeps: http://www.mapleleafup.nl/fordm151/m151cdn.htm

UNEF I, Sinai, Egypt (Suez Crisis), 1963

In 1964 the 8th Hussars (Princess Louise's) took a bunch of brand new M151 with them for their UN Emergency Force (UNEF) rotation. Note the lack of windscreens and .30 Browning machine-gun. These M151 were most likely supplied to the UN by the United States.

The UNEF M151s were painted overall white. "UNEF 1632" and "UNEF 1633" was painted in white on a black squares on rear bumperettes and front bumper. Note the ammunition boxes fixed on the right mudguard as stowage boxes.


An 8th Canadian Hussar patrol meets a more traditional form of transport in the Sinai, 1964 (DND/ME-64-076-4)

[David Dunlop]

Love the variation in painting techniques for the two spare wheel assemblies!

David

[Lynn Eades]

The front one might just have a new tyre on it??