Ryan's M3 medium

[Luke R]

Originally Posted by Ganmain Tony

Figure wise, on paper they add up. Low profile, sloped armour, very quick (for the day) well armed (with the 17 pounder). The yanks couldve tooled up for this design.... surely.

I Read somewhere on the net that the Yanks/English did copy parts or concepts of the 17pounder mounting in the AC4 and used them in the Firefly.
Dont know how true this is though?

[Ganmain Tony]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Tony, a sentinel replica sounds like fun, why not, poeple do panzer replicas on stranger things. Still hoping for a real one. My other half is still reminding me that I should have bought the AC3 sentinel at the john belfield tank auction in 2006. Selling price, $22,500. Yeah. Live and learn.
From your original post I thought you were hinting at the possibility of another surviving Sentinel up your way, hense my " do you know of one". They have to be out there.

No mate I have absolutely no contacts when it comes to armour.

But I agree with building a replica even if it was powered by something not orginal. The purists may get upset, but it would certainly have all the authenticity you would need to have heaps of fun in.

With 17 pounder - it has some of the nicest lines of any allied tank from the war....in my humble opinion.

[anthony urek]

Originally Posted by Ganmain Tony

Has anyone got any pictures of what was originally in these beasts??

Twin GM and Radial set ups??

Here are some pics(although crappy) of Grant engine bays one with the 6-71 and the radial. The twin diesel one has one engine only. Runs fine on one. One engine was typically removed on cut down Grant dozers to save weight and fuel. Unfortunately the motor is covered with tarps to keep the water out which makes it hard to see. But you can see how tight the fit is! No room for maintenance or repair. You can see the fuel tank on the side wall of the engine bay along with the water and oil tank all incorporated into one.
The twin diesels are a great engine(s) but two of them are just too heavy. The radial is more than half the weight of the 6046 twin pack. And I have been told by a man who has driven both that he could pull a higher gear up a hill with the petrol radial. What a motor! I have included a pick of whats inside the radial, simplicity at its best!

[Luke R]

Correct me if im wrong, but didn't the M3 stuart use the 670 and the M3 Lee/Grant petrols the R975 Continentals?

[anthony urek]

Yep my mistake, Ill fix it.

[Ganmain Tony]

Great photo's Anthony... thanks very much for sharing them.

The story I heard about the Firefly Luke, was the pom's offered to fit the 17 pounder to the Shermans to give it the ability to tangle with the Tiger 1 ( and anything else the Germans had...Mark IV's, Panthers etc).

But the Yanks were for some reason very distrustful of the Brits meddling with their tanks so not many were converted.

Apparently fitting the British gun involved reversing the existing turret. Interesting to hear they may have based it off something we did with the Sentinel.

The Firefly must have been effective though. It got Micheal Wittman which would have been no mean feat. Even if he did drive into their ambush.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Ganmain Tony

....

The Firefly must have been effective though. It got Micheal Wittman which would have been no mean feat. Even if he did drive into their ambush.

errr? There is a new and compelling theory that the Sherbrooke Fusilier Regiment (Radley Walter's squadron HQ troop) conducted a troop shoot of 75mm Shermans at Wittmann's broadside when he came charging up a long field to plug some hole on the frontline and passed a bedraggled troop lagerred in a low-walled farmyard.

[Peter Walsh]

There was an episode of 'Battlefield Mysteries' on the History Channel about Wittman's demise. Apparently the British Yeomanry opened up on his right with fireflys and took out the other tanks with him but he was over 900 metres from them. The Sherbrookes were on his left and got him with 75's at about 150 metres. Amazing what they have on TV these days.

There is a restored Grant at the Meandarra Anzac Museum and Emu Gully has a running Grant in their Air and Land Spectacular. I wonder if they have their original turrets.

Cheers
Peter

[cantankrs]

Originally Posted by Peter Walsh

There is a restored Grant at the Meandarra Anzac Museum and Emu Gully has a running Grant in their Air and Land Spectacular. I wonder if they have their original turrets.

The Meandarra M3 Medium has a real Grant turret but I don't know if it originally came off that hull - Rod Keys might be the best person to ask.

All this Sentinel and 17 pdr talk has really gone off-topic...
I'd like a Sentinel with twin short 25pdrs which is what they initially developed the short 25pdr for.

Alex

[Ganmain Tony]

Originally Posted by cantankrs

The Meandarra M3 Medium has a real Grant turret but I don't know if it originally came off that hull - Rod Keys might be the best person to ask.

All this Sentinel and 17 pdr talk has really gone off-topic...
I'd like a Sentinel with twin short 25pdrs which is what they initially developed the short 25pdr for.

Alex

Talking about variants in this hull in the Armour forum..... 'off topic' ???

I thought the twin 25 pounder concept was to test the ability of the turret and the hull of the Sentinels, to cope with the 17 pounder Alex.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.... I'm learning loads. As long as its not cheesing off Ryan..

[Ryan]

Your talking about tanks, and sentinels for that matter to a guy who now owns two tanks and wants so many more including sentinels.
Keep it up. This is porn to me.

[anthony urek]

I heard they fit the 25 pounder into the reversed Valentine turret also! It had limited transverse as a result.

[cantankrs]

Originally Posted by Ganmain Tony

Talking about variants in this hull in the Armour forum..... 'off topic' ???

I thought the twin 25 pounder concept was to test the ability of the turret and the hull of the Sentinels, to cope with the 17 pounder Alex.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.... I'm learning loads. As long as its not cheesing off Ryan..

Sorry if anyone is cheesed off.

In my defense, I was only observing that Ryan started a thread in the Armour section titled 'Ryan's M3 Medium' and we've detoured onto Sentinel's which don't have an M3 Medium bottom half, and 17pdr's which I don't think were fitted to Lee/Grant in any normal capacity. Staying on-topic and starting alternate threads for off-topic stuff can make it easier to find info later if some organisation is put into the threads.

Tony I've scrounged a little bit of info on the Sentinel over the years and don't recall that the twin short 25pdr was employed only for the purpose you describe but you may well have more or other info and/or a better memory of what you've seen than me. I think you're saying that the Twin short 25pdrs may have avoided the need to manufacture a new turret to test the ability of the ring, etc, to cope with the 17pdr.

In over 20 years I've expended significant funds and hard work to gather almost enough bits to restore an M3 Medium, along with a Valentine project including upper armour. So when time allows I love to share information and learn more!

Peace Brothers!

Alex
My Missus reckons its porn to me!

[anthony urek]

Any spare M3 turrets over there in the West Alex?

[Ganmain Tony]

Originally Posted by cantankrs

And for Tony regarding the Sentinel, while it was based on M3 Medium drivetrain and tracks, the AC1 employed 3 x Cadillac SideValve V8's. Two other engine configurations tested was the 3 x V8 blocks mounted onto a welded steel common central case something like the Chrysler Multibank; and then 3 x Gypsy Major (I think it was) aircooled inline aero engines in the intial clover leaf layout. The thing was that Australia seemed to not have the machinetools to produce helical gears so they developed a straight-cut geared variation of the M3 box. Bradford Kendal I believe cast the hull and diff housings and turret. While BK took the Sentinal's castings further by employing one main casting for the hull (except the diff housing and floors as noted).
Alex

Alex seems like I need to back up here before I upset anyone.....My comments about the Sentinel were an attempt to open a debate about Ryans restoration...not so I could jibber on attempting to impress everyone with how little I know....and believe me, my knowledge in this area is very little.

I thought (wrongly it seems) the M3 bottom half was identical to the Sentinel based on what you mention above. So opening a debate about altering the M3 to a Sentinel is now a non debate.

But i would seek some clarification on the differences. The hulls to me look the same, why isnt it possible for Ryan to do a Sentinel look alike?

[Luke R]

Originally Posted by cantankrs

In over 20 years I've expended significant funds and hard work to gather almost enough bits to restore an M3 Medium, along with a Valentine project including upper armour. So when time allows I love to share information and learn more!

Any photos?

Luke.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Ganmain Tony

The hulls to me look the same, why isnt it possible for Ryan to do a Sentinel look alike?

My quick observations Tony are that the bogies have a slightly different Layout. The rear idler sits at a lower position and the transmission/final drive housing is slightly different.
But in saying that...if Stephen Speilburg can make a Tiger Tank out of a T-34 and put it in a movie anything is posible.
Some sheetmetal could make the bogies look similar I think, while the upper hull, being started from scratch could be made to look identical.
People make PzIII's out of FV432 APCs so a Sentinel out of a M3 Grant is quite possible.
Ryan

[Ganmain Tony]

Thanks Ryan

I'll now retreat to the back ground having posted waaaayy to many times on this thread...

Look forward to what you are doing with these vehicles of your's and the other blokes who are contributing useful info.

I still reserve the right to ask questions and be corrected on theories.

[Luke R]

Originally Posted by Ryan

if Stephen Speilburg can make a Tiger Tank out of a T-34 and put it in a movie anything is posible.
Ryan

And he made a Lee out of a sherman or preist for the movie 1941 back in the late 70s.
And made shermans out of grant hulls for the series The Pacific.

luke

[anthony urek]

I might try and make an Abrams out of my carrier

[Luke R]

Originally Posted by anthony urek

I might try and make an Abrams out of my carrier

How about a Vickers Mk. VI Light Tank?

[anthony urek]

Yeah thats more realistic. But they are ugly looking tanks. They look like they are about to fall over backwards.


Sorry Ryan....off topic again

[Ryan]

The only thing you should be sorry for Anthony is calling the Vickers an ugly tank.

Feel free GT ( Ganmain Tony ) to keep posting.

[Scrivo18]

I have one of the Pacific Sherman Turretts :-)


Tim

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Scrivo18

I have one of the Pacific Sherman Turretts :-)

So how did you end up with the turret and not the whole tank Tim?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Luke R

How about a Vickers Mk. VI Light Tank?

That photo is of one of the ten Vickers brought to Australia in 1937 for tank training. It was found in a derelict state and came back to the UK where it was eventually restored for Jacque Littlefield's collection. I did all the electrical work on it at the time. When researching information, I found it was actually based in Victoria, and came across two photos of it on training exercises there.

[anthony urek]

Great find Richard.
I know of only one still over here in private hands. How many are in the UK?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by anthony urek

Great find Richard.
I know of only one still over here in private hands. How many are in the UK?

Anthony,

Out of the ten sent to Aus, I am aware of five existing in some form. The one shown on here, in California, another at the Imperial War Museum, Duxford, in UK, one in Puckapunyal tank museum, and remains of another two, with a MLU forum member in Adelaide. Is the one you are thinking of, amongst these?

regards, Richard

[Scrivo18]

Hi Ryan

I did not have enough $$$$$ to get a one of the sherman's.. I did put in a tender but not enough at the time.. So settled for a turret :-)

Tim

[anthony urek]

Bloody tender process! Thats cruel


Yes Richard, make that two. The one(s) in Adelaide and I forgot about the one at Puka.