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  #1  
Old 15-03-19, 15:05
Sam Tremblay Sam Tremblay is offline
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Default canadian carrier mk1 gun rest

hi im starting to reuild a canadian bren carrier mk1 i was just wondering if somebody have the measurment for the gunrest also the type of steel and wood thank
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  #2  
Old 15-03-19, 17:29
rob love rob love is offline
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Your carrier, being very early, would have had rubber firing rests. The wood ones came into being when rubber got scarce after the fall of Burma.

Personally, I have always used a wood like ash for longevity. Brian Asbury has (or had) the long one from the division plate. Although a bit worn after this many years, they are great for getting dimensions and hole patterns from .
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  #3  
Old 15-03-19, 17:34
Michael R. Michael R. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Tremblay View Post
hi im starting to reuild a canadian bren carrier mk1 i was just wondering if somebody have the measurment for the gunrest also the type of steel and wood . . .
Greetings Sam!
The eight (8) firing rests on your early MK-I* carrier were topped with rubber, the rubber being cast into a shallow metal base, then mounted on angle iron supports. The length of each firing rest is indicated in the Canadian Illustrated Parts Manual, FUC-03.

The metal angle iron supports and their fastener placements will be a challenge for you, that I do not believe have been previously covered in MLU. Perhaps someone can fresh my memory if Nigel Watson in his UC Volumes I-III provided any details?
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  #4  
Old 15-03-19, 21:53
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Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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I think I have all the rubber rests but not the angle iron for all of them. They are made from 2 x 1/8 (50 x 3mm is the available size,here)
Are they all mounted on the outside or inside of the hull or is it a mix?
As a note, i think all the U.C.s that came here were early and had rubber rests. never seen a wooden one here.
The other thing I have trouble with is the high and low ones.Were the high ones from British carriers and the low ones for Canadian carriers. Michael R. has told me there are both in Canada. I wondered if the high ones might have been made for British contract carriers? Any thoughts or answers?
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  #5  
Old 15-03-19, 23:22
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Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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Ok. Working on answering my own question:
There are two on the rear plate. Two on the right side. Two on the div plate, One in the gunners slot, and one on the engine deck.
The right side ones have the angle iron riveted to the inside. (there are rivets still in the angle iron and the holes in the upper hull side plate are countersunk on the outside (rivet head fits here)) It makes sense that the rear ones are the same. Am I on track?

Sam I can probably answer your questions.
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Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.II. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
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  #6  
Old 16-03-19, 01:04
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Kirk Armitage Kirk Armitage is offline
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Default Data Plate

Nice to see another early example, 6 1941 does the serial number start with T L ? F
Regards K Armitage
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  #7  
Old 16-03-19, 03:24
Michael R. Michael R. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Armitage View Post
Nice to see another early example, 6 1941 does the serial number start with T L ? F . . . . (edited)
Certainly an example of an early data plate attached to its original fender. Now to verify the fender and data plate belong to the hull, using the identifiers particular to those carriers. There are a few visual indicators that point to an early production carrier, such as the correct track adjuster wheel arms, mounting bracket for the early track adjuster ‘crook’, and the lack of a modification to install the sighting vane.

The data plate does not appear to hold the TL XXXX F one may anticipate seeing. Perhaps the 1790 serial number, in addition to the month/year window.

I agree with you, Kirk: it is nice to see these early examples. I am jealous, and Samuel already knows that from our discussions on his FB UC group.

Last edited by Michael R.; 16-03-19 at 22:58.
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  #8  
Old 16-03-19, 07:00
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
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Default Welcome Sam

Aren't you glad we met on Facebook? And that fellow Bob, great resource!

Next trip I take to the Townships, I will do my best to coordinate a visit to see your handiwork.
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  #9  
Old 16-03-19, 22:48
Sam Tremblay Sam Tremblay is offline
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the serial number 1s only 1790
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  #10  
Old 16-03-19, 23:31
Michael R. Michael R. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Tremblay View Post
the serial number 1s only 1790
That is swell!

The firing support for the gunner apeture remained a rubber/composite material throughout the MK-I* production series where so equipped. For example, the factory production mortar carriers built on MK-I* hulls deleted this firing rest. The thickness changed through the applicable part numbers, TL 13009, TL 13009C and TL 13009B, in that numerical/alpha replacement order.

The two firing rests on the rear protection plate were mounted on the exterior of the plate, facing rearward. (provides clearance for the rear passenger when seated against his backrest).

The two firing rests on the driver side, long protection plate, rear compartment were mounted on the interior of the plate, facing inside the hull.

The image of a 1943 production C01UC MK-I* shows the major portions of eight firing rests. Image credit of Ditsong Museum, Joburg, SA.

CTL 13003D Divisonal plate, Right Hand: 16”
CTL 13004C Divisonal plate, Left Hand: 51”
CTL 13005D Side Plate Front: 14”
CTL 13006C Side Plate Rear: 26.5”
CTL 13008C Engine Cover: 22”
CTL 13009B Gunner Loophole: 5”
CTL 13010C Rear Plate, Right Hand: 11”
CTL 13011C Rear Plate, Left Hand: 10.5”


As mentioned earlier, these measurements are published in the Illustrated Parts Manual, FUC-03.
The firing rest measurements may assist with making the necessary firing rest supports, but you will need detailed measurements of the firing rest support angles, engine support bracket and loophole assembly to produce the entire assemblies.

See also two images showing the gunner loophole rest in the two Canadian produced variations showing the change in the height.
Attached Thumbnails
06DAAA72-F53D-4A7D-B592-0362F165EC57.jpeg   F0AC971A-00B7-4D2F-82B6-D1384D4F782A.jpg   CA1D5660-EC5F-44C4-8677-3D0F926C1D42.jpg  

Last edited by Michael R.; 17-03-19 at 06:21.
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  #11  
Old 17-03-19, 20:36
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
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Default Just how much work do you want to do?

Sam

Now that you see the correct parts, you have a difficult decision to make. Do you work on locating these perishable parts which haven't been made since the 1940s? Do you attempt to make replica parts from modern rubber? Or, my advice would be, make replica parts from hardwood.

You need to keep momentum on your project. Every restoration is a series of compromises. If you can accept a visual simulation of small parts, you can always come back (or a later owner) can come back and continue the restoration to a higher standard.

Bonne chance!
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Terry Warner

74-????? M151A2 plated and on the road
70-08876 M38A1 ready for the road
53-71233 M100CDN trailer manufactured by MCI ready for the road

Wow! All three green beasties run!
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  #12  
Old 17-03-19, 23:00
Michael R. Michael R. is offline
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If anyone can offer assistance with the dimensions for the MK-I* firing rest over the divisional wall, that is the first priority for Sams’ carrier project. Others with UC NO-2 MK-II*’s have previously assisted Sam with upper protection plate dimensions.
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  #13  
Old 17-03-19, 23:21
Sam Tremblay Sam Tremblay is offline
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terry
I will do it in wood it's easy task for me compare to rubber
it's not "original" anyway
also anytime you by eastern township stop by will be pleasure to show you the project

thank to everybody for the hlep
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  #14  
Old 18-03-19, 08:29
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Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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I can answer Sams questions on the rubber and the steel it mounts on at the div plate.
What do you need to know Sam?
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Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.II. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
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  #15  
Old 18-03-19, 09:32
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Also if you go wood, go with sapele ! Cheap, good water resistant properties too.
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  #16  
Old Yesterday, 13:37
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Robert Bergeron Robert Bergeron is offline
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Welcome to the community and good luck with your restoration Sam. Drop by anytime again if you need measurements !
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