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  #31  
Old 06-06-18, 19:08
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jdmcm jdmcm is offline
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I couldn't agree more about the Stug's new UK home...The Weald Foundation is an incredible group with a keen attention to detail and history that is not found in many places these days..plus they make a point of keeping these vehicles in the public eye...very commendable. But I still can't help but feel some sadness and perhaps better said, frustration that this is what it has come to for us here in Canada, that our historical vehicles end up getting more attention and better treatment in another country...this wasn't "just a Stug" as rare as they have become...it was one part of a uniquely Canadian tale involving truly Canadian characters, its loss is a big deal. As I have said before, once all the veterans of these conflicts are gone it is only the artifacts that are tangible links to our history...and if we don't respect those, then what do we have?
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  #32  
Old 06-06-18, 19:18
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I don't know if anyone saw the post I made a few days ago about the second largest national MV collection in England being marked for closure. The Tank museum will take some items to fill gaps in its collection i'd imagine but the majority will get sold off.

All museums make judgement calls which can be seen as questionable, the Tank Museum scrapped a number of unique vehicles which had been recovered from ranges. Also look at all the German kit they they gave back to Germany in the 1960s, so many vehicles that would bolster the collection today...just given away.

I guess when it comes to the army we must remember that they are a modern fighting force and a modern set of vehicles dotted around the camp is much more relevant than some 70 year old curiosities.
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  #33  
Old 06-06-18, 20:28
rob love rob love is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry Kitson View Post
So was perhaps the wartime Jagdpanzer IV was traded to the Germans for the Kanonenjadgpanzer 90 that sits as a gate guard now, or a least the last time I was out there.
The Kanonenjadgpanzer sat outside that gate for a long long time, then was moved down to range control where it sat for a bunch more years. When they didn't want it anymore, Clive (the artifacts manager) went to range control with a couple Jerry cans of diesel and a slave cable, started it up, and drove it back to the museum collections storage building, where I work.

Unfortunately the vehicle had been left with it's hull plugs in, so the hull became a rain gauge. Fortunately, it doesn't rain that much in Shilo, but it does freeze. The water (and freezing) buggered up the alternator, along with some wiring at a low lying junction box. Around the time I started at the museum, the pack was pulled, and the engine compartment re-painted in an epoxy white. The Bosch part number for the alternator looked kind of familiar. It turns out Bosch uses the German NSN for a part number. That NSN led to nowhere, however one digit out was the Leopard1 alternator. A call to Ottawa got permission for us to order one (by the time supply finished we ended up with three) and the $7,000 alternator was installed. However the problem we are currently faced with is that the pack weighs more than the current CF wrecker can safely lift within the confines of this building, so one of these days (possibly in August) I need to pull the vehicle outside and get transport's crane here to do the lift and installation. We almost got the engine in about 2 years back, but broke a coolant fitting while lowering it.

Can't say when, as it is not a priority, but the Kanonenjadgpanzer will run again.
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  #34  
Old 06-06-18, 21:26
Colin Alford Colin Alford is offline
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For the past year I have been heavily engaged in a research project attempting to determine exactly which enemy vehicles came to Canada at the end of WW2, their movements within Canada and their current location.

I have read many thousands of pages of archived documents and have a pretty good grasp of what came to Canada and the initial movements. Recently I have been provided Doug Knight’s findings from his research into this matter that was conducted a few years ago and our findings are essentially the same. There is currently a large gap in the records from the late 1940s into the 1950s. Research is ongoing to attempt to locate records to fill this gap.

My understanding of the movements of the MOWAT StuG is that it travelled aboard the S.S. Blommersdyk (or Blommersdijk) from Antwerp and arrived in Montreal in mid-Nov 1945. It was then consigned to Central Ordnance Depot, Plouffe Park, Ottawa, Ont. The foreign vehicles and equipment were controlled by the Foreign Material Section of the Directorate of Development of A and B Vehicles and Small Arms (DVSA), which was subordinate to the Army Technical Development Board (ATDB). The foreign vehicles and large pieces of equipment were being stored at “Pete’s Garage” in Hull which appears to have been a commercial establishment. At approximately the same time that this shipment took place, the Army had decided that the vehicles would soon be stored in Camp Borden. By 15 March 1946, the StuG was present in Camp Borden and stored in a building controlled by A-33 Canadian Armoured Corps Training Establishment. Unfortunately the Foreign Material Section files that have been located end in the summer of 1946 approximately when their higher formation changed. ATDB and DVSA were disbanded/reorganized and the Foreign Material Section now reported to the newly-created Directorate of Vehicle Development.

A brief submitted by the Canadian War Museum Board to the Royal Commission on National Development in the Arts, Letters and Sciences in July 1949 stated that “…there remains at Camp Borden a large number of German tanks and artillery pieces which could be made available if accommodation could be provided.”

While there is no inventory attached to this brief, it appears that the foreign vehicle collection was still intact at that time.

The next piece of dated evidence is the picture of MOWAT’s StuG attached above. If the date is correct then by August 1956, the collection had been dispersed with at least the StuG and JagdPanzer IV located in Shilo.

So the locations for this StuG appear to be: Assigned to the defense of Amsterdam, recovered from the Germans after surrender by the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada, 1 Cdn War Museum Collection Team (1945), Antwerp (briefly in 1945), Montreal (briefly in 1945), Ottawa/Hull (late 1945 – early 1946), Borden (early 1946 - ?), Shilo (unknown dates, but present in 1956), Calgary (unknown dates), Dr William Gregg (as related by Stew in March of this year), Fred Ropkey (spelling?), then see the link James P provided in post 23 for subsequent movements.

The date I am personally most interested in determining is when and why the decision was made to disperse the collection from Borden. Finding documents from this date may help to determine the whereabouts of the missing vehicles.

For the Jagdpanzer IV, the chain of movements is similar. It was captured by 4 Cdn Armd Div near Wilhelmshaven, travelled aboard the S.S. Grafton Park to West St. John, travelled by rail direct to Borden (late 1945), Shilo (sometime prior to Aug 1956) and then ended up at the Canadian War Museum.

I currently have no evidence regarding any other WW2 German vehicles that were present in Shilo, I wonder if the Jagdpanzer IVs move to the CWM coincided with the arrival of the Kanonenjagdpanzer 90 and there may have been assumptions made about a trade?

Colin
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  #35  
Old 06-06-18, 23:09
rob love rob love is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Alford View Post
I wonder if the Jagdpanzer IVs move to the CWM coincided with the arrival of the Kanonenjagdpanzer 90 and there may have been assumptions made about a trade?

Colin
Colin

Very likely....as you saw on my earlier list of "assumptions", there were more stories than there were vehicles.

The German army also left us a Leopard 1 here in Shilo. They were very generous to the base when they were here, and their absence was certainly noticed.
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  #36  
Old 04-07-18, 01:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Storey View Post
There were at least two in Canada, this one was taken off the Meaford ranges in the 1970s and saved by the CWM. They did a nice job of doing a cosmetic restoration and integrating it into their Italian Campaign display when the new museum opened in 2005. It seems Canada kept the wreck and gave away the runner.
Another picture of this StuG. IIRC, it was Don Dingwall who restored this wreck to a very interesting exhibit.

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  #37  
Old 18-08-18, 20:04
George Bradford George Bradford is offline
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Default The Panzer IV/70(V) ...

Hi All;

Just to acknowledge the Pz.IV/70(V) that used to sit in front of the old Canadian War Museum way back in 1988. It is likely the one that appeared in the Lefthand photo at Shilo, near the beginning of this thread.
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  #38  
Old 19-08-18, 12:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Bradford View Post
Just to acknowledge the Pz.IV/70(V) that used to sit in front of the old Canadian War Museum way back in 1988. It is likely the one that appeared in the Lefthand photo at Shilo, near the beginning of this thread.
Hello George, thanks for the reply and good to see you on this forum!

With your AFV News background, I'm sure you have been following many surviving AFVs even long before many members on here could read.

Regards,
Hanno
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  #39  
Old 19-08-18, 21:20
Perry Kitson Perry Kitson is offline
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Here is a recent photo of the machine inside the new museum. Sorry, can't seem to rotate the photo. (any hints on how to do that?)
It has an interesting mixture of rubber and steel rimmed roadwheels.
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Last edited by Perry Kitson; 01-09-18 at 21:29.
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  #40  
Old 19-08-18, 21:49
James P James P is offline
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The late war version was front heavy and had steel road wheels at the front stations, that and possibly a case of making due with what was available during the last days of the reich.
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  #41  
Old 27-02-19, 18:03
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default Stug III

I found this article in an old copy of IPMS RT and it cases some light on the events behind the sale of the Stug to the States.

Stug 40 Ausf G - Vol. 21 No. 4 RT.pdf
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  #42  
Old 28-02-19, 22:56
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is online now
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Colin,

Ref Post 34: the ship was the BLOMMERSDIJK, cargo ship, launched 1922, 6,855 tons, Netherlands (Van der Giessen) manufacture.

Name changed to Vivara in 1957.

Scrapped/broken up in 1959-1960.

Mike
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  #43  
Old 01-03-19, 11:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry Kitson View Post
Here is a recent photo of the machine inside the new museum. Sorry, can't seem to rotate the photo. .
Easy, save it to the desk top and rotate it, save the now rotated photo and upload it.

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  #44  
Old 10-05-20, 14:50
edstorey edstorey is offline
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Default Stug III SdKfz 142/1

I spotted this short notice about the Stug III while looking through some back issues of AFV News and perhaps may help fill in some of the details about this vehicle.

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  #45  
Old 13-05-20, 18:56
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David Cussins David Cussins is offline
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Heres a photo i took at fred ropkeys museum in 1990...it was for sale at that time.
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  #46  
Old 13-05-20, 21:51
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Default http://silverhawkauthor.com/canadian-war-trophies_326.html

Makes for interesting reading:

Quote:
Canadian War Trophies

War Prize Weapons & Equipment in Canada from the Crimean War, the Fenian Raids, the Boer War, the Great War, the Second World War, the Korean War, the Cold War, the Yugoslav Wars and Afghanistan.

Data current to 13 April 2019

http://silverhawkauthor.com/canadian...phies_326.html
The subject Stug is not listed, but the other is:

"German Sturmgeschütz StuG III Ausf G SdKfz 142/2 Assault Gun, barrel (Serial No. R5453). This StuG III was brought to Canada by Captain Farley Mowat and his Intelligence Collection Team in 1945. It was later placed an artillery range where is served as a range target until it was recovered for the Canadian War Museum."

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  #47  
Old 13-05-20, 22:38
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default Stug III SdKfz 142/1

As I stated back in Post #24, with respect to Stugs, it looks like Canada gave away the runner and kept the wreck. I'd be curious to see an actual wartime manifest of the vehicles Farley had sent back as a lot of stuff is attributed to him.
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  #48  
Old 14-05-20, 23:12
James P James P is offline
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The "Farley Mowat" Stug is in the very best of hands and given the finest of attention to detail during a complete and through restoration, done right by a dedicated and competent outfit.
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