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  #181  
Old 18-08-16, 23:33
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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I repositioned the braces a few times, so I had enought room to work and still retain rigidity.
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  #182  
Old 18-08-16, 23:42
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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The last pictures for now.

As expected it took me a few weekends to finish the repairs, but I have to say it was a very satisfying job. If I were to do this job again I would probably repair the frame before painting the chassis.....or at least make a better job of covering up the painted chassis. The grinding left small steel particles everywhere.....being hot from grinding they "sank" into the paint on the chassis and started rusting after a few days. It took quite some time to clean (sand!) this off again and repaint the chassis

The last picture shows the arch bars back from blasting, with some captive nuts left to do.....and some welding of where the dash-frame meets the arch bars, to get rid of the rust-trap.

Alex
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Arch17.JPG   Arch18.JPG   Arch19.JPG   Arch20.JPG   Arch21.JPG  

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  #183  
Old 19-08-16, 00:49
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
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Default Impressive Work

HI Alex

Your work on straightening the cab frame is impressive. I tried with a 10 ton Porta power and several Jacks to straighten the cab frame on my Pat 12 without success even with the sections needing to bend heated to bright red with a large carbon arc tourch. It just never occurred to cut out one side of the angle irons.

My cab would still bee crooked if Bob C. had not brought me a straight cab frame.

Very informative set of posts.

Cheers Phil
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  #184  
Old 19-08-16, 03:00
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Default frame

The cab frame on my cab 11 was or is still bent . The drivers side wing would not sit level- it sat at a upward angle . I had to make a wedge shaped riser in order to level out the wing . I really could not work out why or how it became bent.... I think these frames were bent from new. The jig at the factory may have had a misalignment problem.

BTW your welding is excellent ..wish I could weld like that
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  #185  
Old 20-08-16, 03:09
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Brilliant......

I have never seen an arch bar cut and repaired before..... the compound curves are a nightmare..... not to mention the residual tension from being formed in the first place.

Bravo.......

Bob C
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  #186  
Old 21-08-16, 21:38
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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Thanks guys! Mike; I think you might be right that a lot of frames might have been bent from new.....and even though I did brace the frame before cutting and welding, I have no idea how much it got bent from rust damage and the hard life at the farm before I started the restoration.
Something I also noticed is that the fenders had some extra holes cut for fastening them to the arch bars....and some holes that were obviously modified to get everything assembled. I would not be surprised if this was done in the factory, and I also wouldn't be surprised if I need to add add some spacers or wedges to get panels aligned, even though at the moment all seems to be pretty much level.


Alex
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  #187  
Old 05-10-16, 00:03
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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Some of the captives nuts on my cab frame were missing or mangled, so I had to make a few new cages.

Al Tooes had a bunch of cages laser cut for his HUW restoration and he sent me some that were left over from his resto (thanks again Al!)
The HUW cages are somewhat different from the early C8 ones, but I was able to use the same sheet metal outline. The first picture shows one of the original cages on the C8 cab frame. The second shows what some of the others looked like, but it gives you an idea how they were welded.

I made a simple tool that I could clamp in the vise and welded on one square nut and clamped a second. I used the first as a jig to form the long ends of the cages by lightly tapping with a chisel and a piece of flat steel bar. That's why I welded on this nut....I wanted to keep the nut in position so I could properly make a 90 degree bend. After the long ends were formed, I placed the piece onto the second nut and formed the short ends. After drilling holes in each of the long ends, and grinding the ends to an arrow shape, the cages were pretty much ready to weld onto the frame. I clamped the cages to the frame by inserting the square nut in the cage, inserting a bolt and clamping down the cage by use of a second nut on the outside of the cage. This makes welding and grinding a piece of cake.
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  #188  
Old 05-10-16, 00:06
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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After I made the first few cages, I noticed they were really tight around the square nut...much tighter than the originals and therefor not allowing very much play when assembling the cab panels, so I welded some material onto the sides of the cut and ground it down so it was slightly oversized. I used a washer to create some more space in the other direction. The result was much more like the original...with the nuts allowing to rattle in the cage.

Well...that's it....a lot of pictures and text to describe a simple (and fun!) job

Alex

p.s. Square nuts came from the Filling Station by the way.
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Cage6.jpg   Cage7.jpg   Cage8.jpg   Cage9.jpg   Cage10.jpg  

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  #189  
Old 05-01-17, 21:23
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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The centre section of the frame isn't welded to the arch bars fully round, leaving space for water and dirt.... creating the perfect environment for rust. I decided to weld up the gaps after I sand blasted the frame. You can sort of see the difference if you compare the first two pictures.

After two coats of primer and a base coat in green I installed the arch bars to the chassis and removed the temporary braces.

Alex
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Trap.jpg   Trap2.jpg   trap3.jpg  
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  #190  
Old 05-01-17, 23:02
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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I didn't have much luck with the bumper bolts... Even before sandblasting the chassis at the start of the restoration, I tried welding on some nuts to the studs that remained after the bolt heads were broken off......hoping I could get the bolts out....I tried several times, but no luck. So at the time I cut off the last remains and used a centre punch to prepare for drilling out the studs.

Now two years later I was ready to drill out the bolts. Drilling went OK, but tapping new threads proved a bit more challenging. I broke the tap in the last hole.....now what? I tried heat, huge amounts of penetrating fluid, pliers and punches....but in the end I decided to try a tool I got from Ebay, A Tap extractor from Walton. It's basically a holder with 4 pins, that insert around the remains of the tap. With some patience....WD40 and even more patience, the broken tap came out. I was able to tap the last bit with new tap.


Alex
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bumper1.jpg   bumper2.jpg   bumper4.jpg   bumper3.jpg   bumper5.jpg  

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  #191  
Old 05-01-17, 23:04
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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I was afraid the bumper wouldn't fit properly as one or two holes I drilled were at a slight angle, but as you can see in the pictures the holes in the bumper have enough play to get all 8 bolts in!

The extractor is quite a simple tool , but it worked. The pins, or flutes, sometimes break, but even with a piece broken off they will still do the job. You can also buy seperate new "flutes". The only trouble with the tool is that they only work for one size tap....so if you have a habit of breaking taps, you will need a variety of different size extractors.

Alex
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  #192  
Old 06-01-17, 02:27
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default That's what they mean when they say better than new!!!!

Amazing these CMO have lasted so long when one considers the rush in which they were built......

Never seen such and extractor for broken taps....... quite the tool.

There are very few time that a welded nut on a stud will not work...... in such instance apply mega heat on the casted piece might have done the trick.......

Nice work Alex.....

Cheers
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  #193  
Old 06-01-17, 03:15
Russ Gregg Russ Gregg is offline
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I have a full set of those 4 flute Walton tap extractors in my tool box at work, unfortunately they always buy 3 flute taps.
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  #194  
Old 11-01-17, 20:32
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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Guys, Thanks for your comments.

Bob, sadly I didn't have the tools to get enough heat in the metal. Drilling was OK, but the challenge was keeping the drill straight as it seemed the casting was far easier to drill into than the old bolts
Of course the tap broke in the last hole as I was rushing to get the job done, before it got too dark!

Russ, the Walton tap extractors are also available for 3 flute taps....and even for 2 flute taps! Maybe you have to convince the guys at work to buy matching taps.....or just don't break them

Alex
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  #195  
Old 31-01-17, 21:33
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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It was about time to spend some time on the driveline of the C8......starting with the transmission and slowly preparing to move to the engine.


I removed the transmission from the engine and chassis some years ago and it was patiently waiting ever since. It was hard to even see the actual transmission through all the layers of dirt, oil and grease. The gear lever was pretty much seized, as well as the small lever for the reverse gear. I had already treated some of the parts with penetrating oil, but even then the gear lever hardly even moved.

After removing all the grime, from the exterior of the box, I was able to remove the universal joint and the gearbox cover/shift tower with the gear lever still attached.

Inside it wasn't looking all that bad....and it even had some oil in it. The sliding gears however were seized to the shaft.
As you can see in the pictures, a previous owner added and extra lever and additional shaft… probably to drive some sort of wrecking gear. With help of Frank von Rosenstiel I have since found out my C8 was used as a tow vehicle in a Toronto used car lot, before ending at a farm vehicle in Pefferlaw, Ontario.

The extra gear and shaft were easily removed…and after liters of penetrating fluid, some heat and some gentle persuasion, the sliding gears moved again and I was able to disassemble the transmission.

Alex
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  #196  
Old 31-01-17, 21:44
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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Some years ago I bought a spare civvy 4 speed Chev transmission from the web, but never looked at the internals of the box. So, now was the time. Both transmissions boxes were disassembled and after cleaning everything I started comparing the parts from the two. At first everything seemed the same, but than I found out the sliding gear of the spare box had one more tooth than the one from the original box....and I found out the main shaft of the spare box was slightly shorter than the one from my C8.

The bearings in both the original box as well as the spare proved to be in good condition, but sadly I found out the mainshaft front bearing (the cage one with the long needles) in the original box was gone....I only found a bunch of the needles....and, after close examination, one end of the bearing cage. Sadly the lack of a proper bearing, meant the inside of the main drive gear was very beaten up, as was the end of the main shaft.

After checking the parts manual I found out all CMP 4 speeds use the same main shaft....even though the u-joint setup of the C8 differs from it's bigger sisters. Tracing the partnumber in a master parts list, I read that it was supposed to be 10,5” long.....a 11” main shaft is also listed, but not used on CMP's. To cut a long story short, it seems the main shaft of my C8 box was replaced at some stage for an 11” replacement. The spare box had a 10,5” shaft....and above all the end of the bearing surface on the end of the shaft was in good condition, so I used that one....combined with the spare main drive gear ......and selected the best parts of the two boxes to rebuild the gearbox.

Alex
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box4.jpg   box5.jpg   box6.jpg   box8.jpg   box7.jpg  

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  #197  
Old 31-01-17, 22:02
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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I am hoping one of the fellow C8 owners can help me out on the following.....I can't figure out the universal joint!

After cleaning the grease from the parts I found out my C8 has a mismatch of yoke and spider, and some things are welded to make it work.....I have a feeling the rearmost yoke that attaches to the drive shaft is the original C8 part....and the front yoke with gear for the speedo is from something else.(?)....but I am not sure.
I have checked the parts manual, but I haven't been able to find the parts numbers in the master parts list. So, basically....before I can start searching for the correct parts, I have to find out what they actually look like! Anyone have a picture of the proper joint???.......the C8 setup is not shared with C15 or any other of it's sisters.

Another thing I wonder is if I have the proper “trompet” shaped "ball collar" that protects the U-joint from the outside world.......it has the remains of a seal at the rear end, but it doesn't seem to have a screw-on cap as I have seen on other (civvy) examples.

Alex
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  #198  
Old 01-02-17, 05:31
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Default C8 uni

Alex

I can help you

The C8 uni joint and drive shaft design , is from the USA 1940 1/2 Ton pickup with 4 speed gearbox . The 4 speed gearbox was an option on the 1940 1/2 Ton pickup, you could order either a 3 or 4 speed gearbox.

My uni was broken, it seems to be a weak point in the driveline. Maybe Jim carter can help you.
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  #199  
Old 01-02-17, 08:06
Maurice Donckers Maurice Donckers is offline
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There was a guy sometimes traveling with me to shows with a C8 , even after renewing the u joints and other hardware , it still smashed to pieces . I solved the problem by putting a C15 rear end on the gear box and a modified C15 ordinary prop shaft behind it , and deleted the prop in the tube system .
After that he drove years around trouble free.
So maybe also an option for other C8 owners.
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  #200  
Old 02-02-17, 22:37
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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Mike, Maurice,

Thanks for your replies. So, that means we have at least 3 C8's with a U-joint that failed. Do you guys remember which part actually failed? the spider maybe...or the front yoke?

Thanks for reminding me Maurice....I couldn't remember who told me about the C15 upgrade!
Based on both your experiences I am now also looking at upgrading the U-joint. I am hoping to find something that will work with the tube and ball collar.

Attached is a picture that Andrew posted some years ago.....based on that picture I think my C8 has the original rear yoke, but had the front yoke and spider replaced.
My front yoke seems to be of a heavier design than original, so maybe I can save the it after cleaning up the welds and finding a spider that does work with both the front and rear yoke.
Another option would be to replace the complete joint for a heavier example, but than I would have to find one that has 17 splines to fit the C8 prop shaft.....so far it seems only Passenger Chevs and 1/2ton trucks at the time had 17spline shafts. I am also looking at GMC CCKW parts as they seem plentiful and cheap and they are probably a lot heavier than the C8 parts.

Thanks guys,

Alex


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  #201  
Old 03-02-17, 01:23
David DeWeese David DeWeese is offline
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Hi Alex,

Took some photos today of the joint assembly that was originally on my C8. If you want I can remove the yoke on the transmission and see if there are any part numbers..

Thanks, David
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  #202  
Old 03-02-17, 03:27
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default No Joke about the yoke.......

HI Alex.

Those enclosed driveshaft tubes a much more avaialble here in North America and they regularly come up on Rbay as NOS stock.

Around here any young hot rodder who installs a large V8 in an old GM truck usually scraps the enclosed tube/driveshaft system as being too weak ofr larger engines.

I have a complete 1940 Chev one ton truck that has the complete power train. It is in bad rusted condition. Crawling underneath it has the same 4 speed tranny as a CMP...... left hand bellhousing clutch..... and fully enclosed driveshaft. It would not be difficult to replace the rear cover of the civvy 40 model with the open system of the CMP. A new driveshaft and suitable yokes and u-joints could be found to fit the new set up.

The ease of doing the conversion is demostrated by other C8 owners who have done exactly that.

Too bad the NOS parts here in North America are so heavy to ship overseas.

I would not trust the welded joint in your truck. To get your truck on the road you could do the conversion and at a later date if you ever find all the parts needed for the original set up..... replace the parts......to return to original set up. All of which can probably done from underneath the truck.

Good luck.

Bob C
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  #203  
Old 03-02-17, 05:55
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The 40 to 46 pickups all used that setup. They also usually had a 4:11 gear ratio.
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  #204  
Old 03-02-17, 07:59
Maurice Donckers Maurice Donckers is offline
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Alex, the spider and yokes failed , we fixed it twice , and tried to beef it up in the tube , but there is no room , if you want to step up one size in U joint.
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Old 04-02-17, 20:55
David DeWeese David DeWeese is offline
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I looked online and found that the u-joint "repair kits" offered by the Chevrolet parts vendors were said to fit '40 through '54 trucks with both 3 and 4-speed transmissions. Went to the shop today and pulled a u-joint assembly off a 1954 truck 3-speed, and also the front yoke from my busted original C8 4-speed transmission.

Sure enough, the u-joint from the '54 3-speed fit the C8 4-speed front yoke exactly. Both rear yokes are the same with 17 splines, but the front '54 3-speed yoke is smaller in diameter than the C8 4-speed one..

Alex, you are welcome to any of the parts in the photo, as I'll probably never need them...

Thanks, David
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  #206  
Old 20-04-17, 15:37
Louis Skebo Louis Skebo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering View Post
One of the last things to do on the chassis was to remove the "threaded pin" used to secure the left front leaf spring. According to the manual it was just a matter of "unscrew the pin", but after 70 years this was not as easy. As the pin taper towards the ends, it is very hard to grab it with any kind of tool, so after several attempts I used heat to get it going. I heated up the casting and it was actually pretty easy to remove the pin and the bushing (which has actually merged into one after all these years) with slight tapping with a hammer.

I measured the chassis points according to the MB-C1 manual, and even though the C8 is not covered in this manual, the technique is the same. One measurement was slightly off, so I decided to use a strap and see what happened. It only took a few minutes and the chassis was completely within tolerance.
It seems that my frame is off a bit as well - do you have a picture with the frame dimensions/measurements?

Cheers.

louie
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  #207  
Old 21-04-17, 00:04
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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Hi Louie,

I am afraid I don't have any chassis measurements for your C15A. The MB-C1 manual just describes the technique of measuring the chassis diagonally and comparing left to right....along with the acceptable deviation. Attached are the relevant pages; I hope this helps you with your Chev.

Alex
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  #208  
Old 21-04-17, 01:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering View Post
Hi Louie,

I am afraid I don't have any chassis measurements for your C15A. The MB-C1 manual just describes the technique of measuring the chassis diagonally and comparing left to right....along with the acceptable deviation. Attached are the relevant pages; I hope this helps you with your Chev.

Alex
Thats great thanks!
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  #209  
Old 17-08-17, 21:00
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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I had been looking for a CMP toolbox for some time, when Maurice offered me one with the lid missing. So, I had to fabricate a new lid, handle, get a new latch and replace the hinges.

Hanno offered his toolbox to use as a template.
The first lid I made was around a wooden form, but sadly the lid was slightly too small. The second lid I fabricated was done using the forming tools that can be clamped in the vice. This worked OK, but this lid was too wide in one direction and too narrow in the other....even though I had made a small test piece before starting on the lid! I didn't fancy making a third one, so I cut the lid diagonally and welded it together again after lining it up with the box.
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  #210  
Old 17-08-17, 21:08
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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I bought hinges at the local DIY store and found a new latch at a musical instrument supplier....The latch is spot on, and presumably used for a violin or guitar case. It was so spot on, that I ended up only using the top half and re-using the original lower half. I sand blasted the plating, so paint would stick.

I decided to make a handle from a piece of tube.....maybe next time I will use a piece of sheet metal, but it was a nice experiment. I took a lot of bending, grinding and a bit of welding, but I am happy with the result.
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