ID Brackets

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi All
An enquiry from a mate who prefers me to post, maybe he's shy. Anyway what are these brackets for?
Bob

[Tim Berry]

The vehicle looks like a gun tractor. I wonder if it is for holding an artillery range finder?

Thats my best guess

Tim:

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Come on all you experts, where are you? This research is in relation to a No.6 Gun Tractor - Bofors.

[Tony Smith]

Maybe well off course here, but the following pic (source) is of the rear cab wall of a canvas topped Aust RAEME Land Rover. It could well be that these two brackets are for the crew's SLRs, but RAEME chappies being as they are, it's possible the top one is for a L4A4 Bren. They bear a similarity to the brackets pictured by Bob, so I SURMISE they brackets are for the AALMG Bren.

[Rod Diery]

Originally posted by Bob Moseley
Hi All
An enquiry from a mate who prefers me to post, maybe he's shy. Anyway what are these brackets for?
Bob

These look like the same brackets fitted to the roof of my 6 seater utility.

I have pondered the use of these brackets ever since I acquired this truck about eight years ago. They certainly are not heavy enough to be for a Bren AALMG. i would suggest that they are fitted to hold an SMG (Sub Machine Gun) such as an Owen, Sten or a Thompson.

I can supply a close up pic if anyone wants to see it.

Cheers
Rod

[chris vickery]

Surely an artillery rangefinder would seem to be a logical assumption I think.
The rangerfinders do not weigh in at nearly the same amount as a Bren and the fact that they are only on CGT or FGT cmps would seem to lead that way...

[Rod Diery]

Originally posted by chris vickery
Surely an artillery rangefinder would seem to be a logical assumption I think.
The rangerfinders do not weigh in at nearly the same amount as a Bren and the fact that they are only on CGT or FGT cmps would seem to lead that way...

Hi Chris, My point is that they are not only found on CGT and FGT CMPs. The 6 seater utility was Australias version of a HUP.
Regards
Rod

[Gunner]

Hi Guys:

Highly unlikely that it would be an artillery range finder. Range finders were normally not issued to field artillery detachment commanders (Sgt in charge of the gun). The Detachment (artillery does not have "crews") Commanders were (and still are) trained to estimate ranges if they had to engage a target with direct fire.

The normal indirect fire mode requires recording all the guns of a battery onto a common orientation by using a survey instrument to lay each sight onto a distant aiming mark, a pair of aiming posts, a paralleloscope or a collimeter. The sights of a field artillery piece are in fact a very fine survey instrument not a telescopic sight as per a sniper rifle. Guns are almost never moved with thier sights fitted. As each sight has to be carefully calibrated to the gun, they are far too valuable to risk damaging. They are carried in a padded sight box and are fitted to their mount as part of the "coming into action" drills.

Another thread has a discussion about the paralleloscope.

Anti-aircraft Detachment Commanders might be issued a small range finder but, again, in the short time an aircraft is exposed during an engagement, it is faster to estimate the range and correct by observing where the tracer goes. Firing the Bofors while hooked to the tractor is possible but is such an unusual situation that it would seem odd to put a bracket on the roof just to hold the range finder, a valuable and fragile piece of kit that would be normally carried in a padded sight box.

Having spent a good portion of my life riding in gun tractors (both Her Majesty's and my own), I would vote for the SMG as I would want my personal weapon easy to hand; not stuck behind the seat or bouncing around on the floor while I'm poked up out of the roof hatch. A more detailed photo would be handy.

Mike (Instructor-in-Gunnery, Royal Canadian Artillery)

[Keith Webb]

As for the first image, Rod's correct, it's a 6 seater utility, in this case the Ford version.

When I asked Mike Cecil, he told me they were LMG brackets, - he's usually correct in these matters.

I've not seen these on any other No 8 or 9 Aust pattern gun tractor as they mounted the LMG and the Bren internally, along with the crew's .303s. In fact the gun tractors fairly bristled with guns; in addition to the 25 pounder (or whatever was being towed) there were 4 .303 rifles, a bren and a SMG.

[Rod Diery]

I took these two pics today of the roof from my C15 6 Seater Utility. I am still not convinced that they are heavy enough to securely hold a Bren AALMG.

Cheers
Rod

[Rod Diery]

Enjoy,
Rod