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  #1  
Old 04-04-18, 18:19
Paul Singleton Paul Singleton is offline
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Default Workshop questions

Hello, I have moved and now have a nice 30X60 steel clad building. It is 2X6 framing and bare inside. What suggestions does anyone have for insulation and interior walls. I have seen plywood, steel sheeting and drywall (gypsum board) used and was curious about the pros and cons of the types on materials. Thank you
Paul
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  #2  
Old 04-04-18, 19:06
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chris vickery chris vickery is offline
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Hi Paul
I built a 30 x 40ft 3 bay garage about 3 years ago and found myself with the same questions. After a bunch of pondering here is what I came up with;

-insulation, really a no brainer. Put as much as you can. I used Fiberglas Pink R-20. Maybe should have opted for R-28 but R-20 works well. An even better option is Roxul. The ceiling had R-50 blown in.

-when I priced out drywall, plastering, finish and paint then compared it to steel sheeting, it came out approximately the same. Drywall susceptible to dampness and damage.

-plywood is very pricey, OSB looks like hell. Plus it needs to be painted and has no fire retardant qualities.

So, in the end, strapped the ceiling and walls. Used G1S fir plywood for the ceiling. Used light grey steel sheeting for the walls. Epoxy painted the floor.
Building is tight, bright, warm and clean. No worries about welding sparks.
Holds constant 15C all through cold North Bay ON winter. Costs me less than
$1000 per year for heating.(propane) Steel is also nice if you own a bunch of magnets, great for hanging things right on the wall.

And to answer the question I know guys will ask, no I don't use a woodstove. A few reasons 1) insurance wouldn't cover me 2) I travel frequently and really don't have the time nor the want to keep a stove stoked 24/7 3) Hard to keep a large space at a constant temp with wood, either too hot or too cold 4) mess 5) potential dangers associated with things in the garage that like to burn eg propane, oxy/acetylene, vehicles with fuel, paint fumes etc etc
One idea I do like is the concept of an outdoor wood furnace with radiant in floor heating. An expensive option to be sure and only good if you're starting from scratch.

Hope this helps
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1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC
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MLU, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers, FMVA

Last edited by chris vickery; 04-04-18 at 20:49.
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  #3  
Old 04-04-18, 19:28
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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Whatever you put on the walls (even nothing) consider painting it with glossy white (or other light colour). You will be amazed how much brighter it will make the place look. Light will reflect to where you can use it rather than being absorbed into an increasingly grubby surface. Also, dirt doesn't stick as well to glossy surfaces as it does to flat/rough surfaces.
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Old 04-04-18, 21:41
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chris vickery chris vickery is offline
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Good points Grant. This is why I opted for steel- a smooth glossy and light colored surface that is easy to clean and requires no upkeep. Drywall and wood are both rough enough that it doesn't take long to turn grungy. The initial cost of paint and the labour to apply it is also a consideration. My garage is beautifully bright.
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3RD Echelon Wksp

1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC
1958 M274 Mule 2cyl (4cyl engine waiting for transplant!)
1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR
1981 MANAC 3/4T CDN trailer
1983 M1009 CUCV
1971 M35A2

RT-524, PRC-77s,
and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and.......

MLU, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers, FMVA
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  #5  
Old 04-04-18, 23:51
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cletrac cletrac is offline
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You can get plastic sheeting that looks the same as the steel stuff. It's fire resistant and costs a bit more than half of steel.
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  #6  
Old 05-04-18, 00:48
Paul Singleton Paul Singleton is offline
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Default Workshop

Thanks for the input on my soon to be work space. I will probably go for the painted steel. There is a manufacturer fairly close to me and I agree that the steel would be more durable than either plywood or drywall. As for heat, I will be using propane. Chris what type of heat source are you using, forced air furnace or a tube type of heater? I am planning to partition off part of the building and only heat the work space, probably about 30X30.
As to the plastic sheeting, I inquired at a couple of building supply stores and they had heard about plastic garage liner panels but had not sold any. I will do some more searching, but maybe they are not legal to use in Ontario.
Paul
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  #7  
Old 05-04-18, 04:18
chris vickery's Avatar
chris vickery chris vickery is offline
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Paul, if you look in one of my pics you may see a ceiling mounted forced air gas furnace. Its not all that large, if memory serves its only about 50 or 60,000BTU an wasn't that expensive. I believe I got it installed around $1800 all in- furnace, chimney, gas lines, installation and taxes. I could have opted for oil but it has pros and cons. The biggest pro being that dollar for dollar you get more BTUs out of oil yet the cost is higher. Also, the potential environmental impact and damage should you ever have a leak...
Get some ceiling fans as well, they will help to keep the air circulation going which keeps the temperature more constant. Mine were about $129 each from Home Depot. I also don't play the thermostat game. Set it low and leave it there all winter. If need be, turn it up for the time when you are working in the garage. I only need to turn mine up a few degrees and it doesn't take long to be comfortable since everything in the garage is already a consistent temperature.
As far as plastic liner I am no expert. I believe the Ontario Building Code stipulates a fire retardant surface on top of framing such as drywall then other coverings may be applied over that. Not so sure this stipulation applies to freestanding garages but I do know it applies to attached ones in residential applications.
I guess you can see where my choice is for interior coverings in a garage. Quite a few friends have also been down the same road and that is what they went with as well.
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3RD Echelon Wksp

1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC
1958 M274 Mule 2cyl (4cyl engine waiting for transplant!)
1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR
1981 MANAC 3/4T CDN trailer
1983 M1009 CUCV
1971 M35A2

RT-524, PRC-77s,
and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and.......

MLU, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers, FMVA

Last edited by chris vickery; 05-04-18 at 04:24.
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  #8  
Old 05-04-18, 05:21
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Jordan Baker Jordan Baker is offline
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Iíve seen in buildings that had the plastic wall coverings have some issues in a dusty environment. We used a blower to help clean out all the dust and it resulted in a ton of static electricity attracting dust to the panels.
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  #9  
Old 05-04-18, 06:11
Paul Singleton Paul Singleton is offline
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Default Plastic

Thanks Jordan, I hadnít thought about static electricity buildup on the plastic panels. It could make dust almost impossible to clean off, as the wiping motion from a broom or brush could cause even more static buildup.
Paul
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  #10  
Old 05-04-18, 06:43
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Robin Craig Robin Craig is offline
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Just an observation, you can't buy natural light.

I am putting a lot of windows in mine knowing I am robbing myself of wall space.
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  #11  
Old 05-04-18, 14:55
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chris vickery chris vickery is offline
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Robin, an excellent comment. I too have taken advantage of the most natural light possible. I have three windows 36" x 48" along the exterior rear wall of the garage. When I was choosing my three garage doors, I had one panel of each door equipped with window panes at about the 6ft height. In winter, I place Styrofoam pieces in the windows at the back of the garage as it is the windward side to help with insulation. The white Styrofoam still allows natural light to radiate through. I also chose windows with a high R-value for northern climates as well as commercial grade garage doors with R-18 insulation.
My ceiling features 3 rows of 5 fluorescent fixtures (4ft twin lamp) which is quite bright.
A bit of extra money upfront pays dividends over the long run...
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3RD Echelon Wksp

1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC
1958 M274 Mule 2cyl (4cyl engine waiting for transplant!)
1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR
1981 MANAC 3/4T CDN trailer
1983 M1009 CUCV
1971 M35A2

RT-524, PRC-77s,
and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and.......

MLU, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers, FMVA
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  #12  
Old 05-04-18, 19:36
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Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
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Default Comments on workshop

Hi Paul

You have asked for comments on a very good topic. The information members are bring forward is good stuff.

I built my 2nd and last CMP workshop in 2004 my first comment never enough space, never enough organized storage space. My shop is 24x36 feet with 12 ft ceilings and has a loft with 900 sq.ft. of shelf space.

I insulated my shop walls and ceiling with 2" blue insulating board, pretty efficient but one problem the blue board shrinks 1-2" in length leaving gaps after about 10 years don't know if this is normal or result of being exposed to paint thinners.
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The ceiling boards were cut to fit between the joist, and I then blew in stria-foam packing peanuts. Result there is very little loss of heat through the ceiling.

I have two suggestions, programmable thermostat so you tell the heat to come on 2 hours before you go out to work. Second combination ceiling fan air filtration units.

It has been mentioned that adding ceiling fans will help get the heat down of the ceiling. Instead of buying ceiling fans I took an old room fan made a frame to hold air-filters. Result I have a unit that blows the hot air off the ceiling down to the floor and takes the dust out of the air at the same time.

Recently I made a second unit with a new fan and new filter rack design that holds two layers filters around the sides and one layer on the top. On the first unit I moved the 3 speed switch from the fan to the wall so the speed can be changed to fit the need. The effectiveness of the units of course depends on the filters you choose to use. But they are fairly effective because when you are sanding the surface of the outside filters changes pretty quickly depending on color of what you are sanding.
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The newest unit is directly over my primary work area so it is blowing filtered air down on me. The other unit is at the far end of the shop and was intended primarily to get the hot air off the ceiling and back down to people level.

Did some air flow studies on the units because of the large filter surface area the speed is low, (good for filtering) yet moving a lot of air yields a lot of cubic feet of air going through filters. Time for one unit to filter the cubic volume of my shop is about 14 minutes, so with two units that time is cut in half.

One thing I have learned that when it is time to change the filters you want to slide them out carefully and directly into a plastic trash bag. These filters can get pretty dirty and dropping one on the floor makes a mess.

Cheers Phil

Keep us posted
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  #13  
Old 05-04-18, 20:40
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chris vickery chris vickery is offline
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For your consideration Phil might I offer this opinion...
I think it is more likely that your wood joists have shrunk over the years as the timber dries out and not the styrofoam itself. Food for thought.
BTW, your air exchanger invention is interesting. One thing I considered but did not do was to install an exhaust fan in a sidewall. I guess I am too picky so my shop does not see sanding dust or paint too much as I do most outdoors. If I were to build another shop or add an addition I think I would have a separate section walled off for “dirty work”.
Paul you alluded to perhaps sectioning off your shop, maybe you will take this as a consideration...
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3RD Echelon Wksp

1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC
1958 M274 Mule 2cyl (4cyl engine waiting for transplant!)
1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR
1981 MANAC 3/4T CDN trailer
1983 M1009 CUCV
1971 M35A2

RT-524, PRC-77s,
and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and.......

MLU, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers, FMVA
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  #14  
Old 27-04-18, 03:01
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Robin Craig Robin Craig is offline
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Just a couple of quick comments more.

I will never pour concrete now without taing the time to put radiant heating pipes in the floor and the insulation associated with it ever again. That is one you can not recover from. In floor heat is magic in my book.

The other comment is of a more fluid nature.

If you live with the confines of a large city and don't have a septic system this wont be of much interest to you.

Our workshop at work has it's own septic system and drainage, the pipework is a bit more complex and longer than we would like. We experience some problems a while ago and as a result determined that too much solid waste in the grey water was coming from the big wash up sink in the shop. There are a number of us who use it and we are all saints all the time.

So we put some efforts into finding a way to capture that material.

The answer is this clever device. Made by Liquid Assets in the US of A and called the Gleco Trap it replaces the traditional P trap under a sink with a removable reservoir and a drain valve.

The valve on the side allows you to drain the column of water above the reservoir before you remove the jug. We bought it mail order from in Canada and it was from memory about $120 inc postage of there abouts.

We have found that silicone grease is good at making it seal properly after a clean out which we do monthly. Our problems have stopped an no one has to own up.
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