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#31
14-05-11, 22:57
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Great work you people are doing,i put a link on face book to it on my page under Ken Hughes (in New Zealand)
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kenney 
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#32
15-05-11, 04:04
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Ring gear....
Hi Joel
If all you need is a ring gear or a spare flywheel with the gear installed then I would not tear down the parts truck....... I think a lot easier to find one than to strip major components from the spare truck. I have spare flywheels here in Ottawa..... it is just that finding a large enough envelope to send it to you is a bugger !!!! If you are desperate, I could sandwich the flywheel between two squares of plywood and forward by Grey Hound bus..... but it is heavy $$$$..... in all eventuallity you would need the clutch surface polished in a machine shop. Bob
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada
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#33
16-05-11, 19:26
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Hey Bob
How much do you think it would cost to get the flywheel here. It would be great to get it here, let me know. Joel
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#34
16-05-11, 21:23
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Flywheel Gear
Hi Joel
You should be able to get the flywheel ring gear from a local parts supplier price range around $50. Checked the Chevrolet Master Parts book 1938 - 1951 it list all flywheel ring gear ALL 38-51 as being part # 3835306 may actually run later than 1951 as I remember the key to knowing which is the number of teeth. Tried looking on NAPA Canada's web site and found BKP 6003002 as being the part number with this as description: Line code BKP Part number 6003002 Description Flywheel Gear Attribute Product Features:Replacement Ring Gear On Flywheel & Flexplate Assemblies Duplicate Original Equipment In Fit & Function,# of Teeth:139,Manufacturer:Anchor Industries,Mfg Part Number:139CF,I.D.:13",O.D.:14",Width:.507",Pitch:1 0 / 12,Tooth Chamfer:Front Obviously have the local parts guy confirm that this looks like the correct part number. Check your tooth count, I could not find a price on line from Canada but US Napa wanted $42 US. Last time I ordered one of these it took under a week for it to come in. Reason I mention this is that having a flywheel shipped may cost more than what the ring gear costs. Installing is easy, heat the ring gear in an oven to 350F pick it up with a pair of clamp on pliers and it will drop right on to the flywheel.
__________________
Phil Waterman `41 C60L Pattern 12 `42 C60S Radio Pattern 13 `45 HUP http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/ New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com Last edited by Phil Waterman; 16-05-11 at 21:27. Reason: Add Information
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#35
17-05-11, 00:08
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PAINT- dont fret enormously over this...
If you go to a gathering of CMPs, and put ten restored CMPs beside each other, you will see ten different shades of dull green. HATCH- as far as anyone has been able to determine there is no correlation between round and square hatch and years of production, nor between Ford and Chev.. It is also possible that during the course of its life a vehicle coming out of the factory with one or the other. or none.. may have had the roof damaged and replaced with another one with or without a hatch or the other type of hatch.
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I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips, Straining upon the start. The game's afoot!
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#36
17-05-11, 00:17
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well the parts truck arrived today...it is a 1944 chevy I believe, I am new at this, so I could be wrong. It is in rough shape but alot of little items that we can use.
        
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#37
17-05-11, 00:36
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Some thoughts on Marc's Comments
Quote:
I think you are dead about the paint colors, if i remember correctly there has been a comment that this was one of the issues of the knock down kits and reassembly, that the end results often didn't quite match even when assembled. Any documentations to this comment? The point about the square vs round vs no hatch at all. Yes the cab tops are supposed to be interchangeable. But are they interchangeable Ford to Chevy (I don't know) has any body tried swapping? Cheers Phil PS Joel your donor truck appears to have many use-able parts and actually might even be a restoration project in its self. So keep any of the parts from the prime truck with the donor. If at the end of your project the donor truck needs a home please post on MLU so that all use-able parts can be recycled, reused, re-tasked to another CMP project. This is a project that the students working on it will never forget.
__________________
Phil Waterman `41 C60L Pattern 12 `42 C60S Radio Pattern 13 `45 HUP http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/ New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com
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#38
17-05-11, 01:03
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the cup shaped thing on the back wall of the cab (pic 3) is the remnants of an early style fire extinguisher bracket.
The small wood bathtub shaped thing in picture 2 looks like the rifle butt holder which mounts (with two large machine screws) on the floor beside, and slightly behind each seat, beneath the rifle holder shown in picture 6. This is good to have.. These were wood and are often rotted away. They have a slight angle to the inside "floor" of the cup, this matches the angle of the rifle butt when standing up. The two screw holes are countersunk, and there is a small drainage hole drilled at the back. Always try to gently remove any and all screws and bolts. !! (it is worth the time to try to undo or unscrew them, rather than the sometimes faster route of breaking them to get them off...really try to work them free and recover them someone has straightened out the arms on the pintle hook! The rad grille is interesting..almost looks like half of the original grille, and half of a grille from an armoured Chev truck...I doubt it is , but in the picture it looks similar The 44 you will notice has the lifting rings on the hubs front and rear. the rusty cab wall at the mating joint between upper and lower cab halves is a very common place for rust,..also around the rear wall at the floor level.- PS- PHIL- rumours of my death are greatly exaggerated
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I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips, Straining upon the start. The game's afoot! Last edited by Marc Montgomery; 17-05-11 at 12:38.
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#39
17-05-11, 04:57
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Yes the 2nd CMP was delivered to the school today. It was miserably cold this morning and a bit of an ordeal getting it out as another dead vehicle was in the way. Transporting it was a bit scary. The box was not fastened so we strapped it down. Looked like many pieces were going to fall off or out of the box en route. There are many very decent and usable parts with the 2nd CMP. Front bumper hooks, tail pintle hook, two convoy lights, decent seat frames, rifle racks, extinguisher bracket, one wiper motor, two spare rads, spare gas tanks, rear window frame, and much more. Surprising the engine and frame is in excellent condition. The body not so much. It almost looks like the it was a restoration in progress that stopped many years ago. Only way to explain the quality of the chassis and how loosely the body was bolted on the frame. This vehicle has proven to be a good donor truck for this project and maybe back more. Unfortunately the tires are not matching and not very good. Although we will keep the best spare wheel and tire for the on truck spare. So the next step will be to raise funds for a set of four tires. That way once the rims return from the sandblasting shop with the cab and box, they can be painted and added to the main truck. This will allow the kids to move the chassis around the shop easily.
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#40
17-05-11, 05:17
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As we were off loading the 2nd CMP today, I too was thinking the same thing that both Phil and Marc are now noticing. The donor truck is actually not that bad. The powerplant, chassis, and pretty much everthing underneath is surprisingingly nice. Looks like someone started a restoration many moons ago. They must of lost interested and just quickly nuted the body back on for moving it. The poor elements about the vehicle is the body quit frankly. But thats just sheet metal if you think about it. Someone who is talented with metal work would actually appreciate this truck.
The front cowl in the picture is not the first one. Its in the back box burried under the other parts, judgeing by the colour. I don`t know why the yellowish one was added to the cab as it doesn`t seem be any better shape. Some of the louvers seemed to have been removed and a piece of expanded metal welded on. Seems wierd. The cab exterior walls are poor and floor bad, but again just sheet metal in comparison to other rarer parts. From what I could see in the brief chance I had to inspect, its really not that bad, better than I have seen for sure. That being said I don`t want us to steal too much. Thankfully there are many spare parts in addition to this donor truck. And most of what we need are the little things, meaning nothing structural nor too depleting. I hesitate to steal the fly wheel as it would be alot of work and would hinder any future considerations. Really this could be a decent start to a seperate restoration for someones contemplation. Joel and I will have to discuss and determine our needs first.
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#41
17-05-11, 12:41
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note! about the tires/rims... be careful not to damage the inner rubber bands that "seal" the split rims and protect the tubes.! in their zeal, the students may not realize the importance of these thick rubber bands.
__________________
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips, Straining upon the start. The game's afoot!
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#42
17-05-11, 15:40
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Flaps or spacers.....?
Hi Marc
Are you referring to the "flaps" which are easily available at truck tire shops about $15 each..... ...or the solid rubber spacer that fits between the beads and keeps the run flat from collapsing......? these are hard to find and not necessary for a modern tube type re-installation. I have found that the flaps, if old and near original, are usually very hard/brittle and not worth saving.....having the rims sandblasted and painted reassembled with new tubes at about $25 and flaps $15...... ....... not having to change a flat by the road side.....priceless. Joel When you are matching tires for the final installation...... it may be worth while to take a measurement tape and measure the full circumference of the tires....... the closer they are to the same size the easier it will be on the U joints and generaly reduce loading of the drive train components. Our experience with different bar thread tires......different brands and same brand different manufacturing dates of 9:00 16 tires..... as much as 6 to 8 inches difference on the rolling distances/circumference.... some where 1 to 2 inches taller and this on NOS tires...... generally speaking the original 1940ish V shape thread tires seemed to be a lower profile than the modern reproduced bar thread tires.
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada
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#43
19-05-11, 08:29
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Yes the Chev and Ford cab tops and backs DO interchange and so does the doors and in a lot of cases the wings/mudguards,lube all the cage nuts that you can as they are worth saving ,even if you have to heat them before undoing.
A ford cab top can be identified by a continued seam weld from the drip rail around the corner,the Chev ones are spot welded. As everything with these vehicles nothing is set in concrete as a standard,as things were changed depending on availability of product at the time.
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kenney
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#44
20-05-11, 01:23
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Well the parts truck does not want to give up it's parts. We just learned that a 44 CMP does not have the same steering column or flywheel as the 42 CMP. But if you change the box at the bottom of the steering column then you can use the 44 CMP column no problem. The flywheel...that is another story. The local Auto Parts Dealer, Youngs Automotive is searching for a new part, they have not let us down yet.
We also found that the lifting rings on the 44 CMP can not just be installed on the 42 CMP without having to replace the whole drum. Now we just need to remove the Rad overflow tank on the 44 CMP (under the body and see if we can clean it up and install it on the outside. On and we did replace the front bar since the original one had extra metal welded to it. We also found out that the local Muffler store Thruway Muffler is going to build a new exhaust for us     
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#45
20-05-11, 02:51
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Puzzled.....?
Hi Joel
Curious about steering not fitting..... what were the differences..... is the steering box different of the whole steering tube different..... your 42 should have a rubber steering wheel and the 44 the wooden steering wheel.... I was under the impression that they were interchangeable....? The flywheel..... your 42 has a 216 engine..... why would the donor flywheel not fit...... is the donor engine a 235...? ***** can you show us a picture of the engine on the 44 CMP..... particularly the valve cover and the distributor side....? **** One thing to remember is if you do switch flywheel the teeth count/size must match the gear on the starter...... on the 216 you must use the original 216 6 volts starter which matches the broken flywheel ring gear.... on the donor if it is a different size engine ....... it may have a 12 volt starter and different gear size that must match that flywheel.... they have to be transplanted as a set..... I was under the impression that a flywheel could be moved for different size Chev 6.....216 to 235 or 261 and vice versa as long as you had a matching starter. Save that radiator / bumper guard..... even if it has welding on it.... it can be fixed. On the lifting flanges..... you are correct you would need to switch the whole hub/drum assembly...... but you do not really need the lift rings on a 42 Chev. You have a very healthy fan blade on the engine of your 42.....more blades than the usual 4 found on typical CMP. Keep trucking//// the kids are doing great. Bob
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada
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#46
20-05-11, 04:22
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The diameter of the the steering column was different so the column would not fit into the steering box.
The engine did look different in the 44 CMP compared to the 42 CMP and so does the transmission or at least the casing for the transmission
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#47
25-05-11, 12:49
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joel= slight delay for hatch.. found a big box that fits,
BUT someone crashed into my van while it was parked and the insurance is going to write it off...and give me peanuts for its as it has over 300K km.. looks like Chris V may beat my mileage ;-( the thing about accidents is, even when 100% not your fault, it still ends up costing you quite a bit in... gas, time, stress, and money. Am now driving a somewhat wrinkled, one-eyed, out of alignment van (but not very far) and am looking for a replacement. I will try to get bus quote on Saturday for you for pickup at Port bus terminal-
__________________
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips, Straining upon the start. The game's afoot!
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#48
26-05-11, 02:34
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Sorry to hear about your van, thank goodness you weren't in it. If you were in Port, I could have the Auto shop look at it.
I go away for a few days and the students go into spped mode. The cab, bed, rims and tool box are now sanded and primed and back at the school. A new flywheel has been ordered, again thank you Youngs Automotive (now we are just waiting to get it and put it on). Once it is on then we can put the body back on. In the mean time the students have painted the rim lug nuts red and primed some of the smaller parts that go into the cab. A new exhaust has been put on today as well. The overflow tank has been removed from the 2nd CMP so that we can see what shape it is in. A retired autobody guy is also coming in to see what needs to still be done to the cab and then show the students how to do it. Flex oil lines have been installed and the gas tanks are being sanded down so that they can be repainted. Speaking of repainting..the colour that we are wanting to use SCC No.2, do you think it is similiar to the brown that UPS uses?? Just a thought. The last picture I downloaded, can anyone tell me what it is??     
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#49
26-05-11, 14:55
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bracket id
Hi Joel,
re the last picture - it's a mounting bracket for a set of 2 truck safety reflectors / flags. It's postwar civilian, probably used into the 1970's and later. A Google image search found this: http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/m/mtm2...5t_yIA/140.jpg HTH Brian
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#50
26-05-11, 22:39
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Oil line plumbing
Looking good, just a concern on the filter flex oil line routing so close to the exhaust, you may want to re-visit it.
The flex hose material will harden and crack with exposure to high heat, 1000 plus F. Potential for oil fed fire. Walde
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#51
27-05-11, 03:18
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I will check with the Auto Teacher tomorrow about the oil line. Another busy day, the seats are installed (four seats into two). The 2nd CMP tires are for now so that we can move the CMP to be cleaned and undercoated. Gas tanks are sanded so that they can be painted and a steering column brace has been installed as well.
Hey does anyone know what the little rectanglar hole in the steering column is with wires hanging out. Oh, another painful point is that we have yet to find a flywheel gear ring (139 teeth). NAPA Online (in the US) says they have one but the two stores I contacted (one Canada the other US) say that they can get the part. It is fustrating. Oh and NAPA Online won't let you order from Canada. AHHHHH  The last picture is the 2nd CMP engine which has the flywheel that is bigger, 169 teeth I believe.    
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#52
27-05-11, 04:13
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Your second engine is a 235 from 1953 and newer.
__________________
1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2
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#53
27-05-11, 06:23
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"Hey does anyone know what the little rectanglar hole in the steering column is with wires hanging out? "
It's the horn ring contact point. You can get a replacement plate from any jeep parts supplier.
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#54
28-05-11, 23:50
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We decided to take a chance. We tack welded the busted gear ring and then heated it up and placed it on the flywheel. Then spent over an hour filing any rough spots and making sure where the brake was that the gap between teeth was not any bigger.
It is now installed...we just need to put the clutch plate back in and the transmission. Then we will see if the engine cranks over.
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#55
31-05-11, 01:32
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The CMP was in a bad mood today. The day at Port High started with the starter motor being placed back on to see if the flywheel would work. We crossed our fingers and hoped. We were repaid in kind, it cranked over. Since that worked, lets try the spark plugs....fiddle with the order until we got it right and we have spark!!! Now lets pour some gas in the carb and see if we get a bang.......nothing....again...nothing. Ok, let's try quick start.....we got a bang. But not with the gas.....the spark plugs are bone dry. So tomorrow we try to spray a little gas into the spark plug holes, and hope. If not then we start the process of compression tests and all that other stuff.
Instead of calling it a day the students replaced the clutch plate and put the transmission back on.
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#56
01-06-11, 15:53
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Hey Bob
Is that ring gear still available. We tried to repair the old ring gear and it just broke after the engine started. NAPA does not have any and will not have any for a minimum 2 -3 weeks. Even then they might not. Please let me know what it would cost....we only have about 2 1/2 weeks of school left and the students want to get the truck working and the body back on. I don't know if the Post Office is an option because of the chance of strike. Maybe Fedex or UPS.
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#57
02-06-11, 22:00
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Flywheel....
Will check in the barn tonite....... pretty sure I have a couple....
Best bet is to ship by Grey hound between two sheets of plywood..... you cover shipping the flywheel is free. Will weight it tonite and get a Grey hound quote tomorrow. The flywheel will not doubt need resurfacing of the clutch contact area by a local machine shop.... just checked Ottawa transmission.....takes about 6 hours and cost is $75.00 If everything checks out will ship Monday a.m. Hang in there. Bob C.
__________________
Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada Last edited by Bob Carriere; 03-06-11 at 02:38.
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#58
03-06-11, 02:40
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Got it....
Crated and ready to go..will ship tomorrow...sucker weighs 40 pounds including the plywood and 2x4 sandwich.
Hang in there. Bob ....from the Hammond gang.
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada
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#59
03-06-11, 21:03
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It's gone.....
Crate has been shipped by bus before noon today..... should be in Niagara Falls after 9 tonite...... available for pick up at bus terminal Satruday morning when they open....... they have your home tel. number.
Shipped .....NOT....COD..... cheaper that way..... you owe me $45.90 Sure hope it fits. Bob C PS.... when the little girl at the counter tried to lift it over to the scale.... I warned her that it was heavy.... 39 pounds according to by home scale... she looked at it...... said OK 39 pounds...... one of the "goons" snatched it and put it on a cart......
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada Last edited by Bob Carriere; 03-06-11 at 23:38.
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#60
03-06-11, 23:03
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Awesome, you are the best Bob.
Though I am confused, was it shipped COD and I also owe $46, or was it not shipped COD and I owe $46 dollars? I might be able to pick it up tonight, hopefully, I have to be in Welland early tomorrow for reenacting display Joel
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