Strickland Carrier Serial No: VR750

[Plushy]

Hi All,
Been awhile since i have been on the Forum .

I recently purchased a Carrier hull in Victoria which was a Strickland conversion. Today i found the Serial number on the rear of the carrier above where the Diff pokes through .

So i am guessing that the VR is Victorian Railways . Is there a way to find out more about this carriers history ?








regards ,
James .

[Howard]

Nice find, JP!

[Lynn Eades]

I see a WC Dodge front guard support sitting on the track guard.
Good images showing the smaller sprocket and packed out suspension. Thanks for posting.

[Dale Jordan]

Interesting that the track winch spanner is still there .
Dale

[Luke R]

If you look in book 3 pg 124 of the AWM books you will find that on 17/11/41 VR750 was loaded on to the Talabot and was shipped from Melbourne to the Middle East.

[Plushy]

Thanks for the Information Luke ! .

Looked up the Book you mention on AWM website never knew that i could do that and downloaded the book .

Is there a way to find out the unit it was issued too ?

Pretty impressive the Old girl has been to the Middle east and back .

[Luke R]

From what I've heard(some one correct me if I'm wrong) , you would have to go through each unit diary in hope that you will find the carrier which may or may not listed.

[Darrin Wright]

I was very lucky with my hull (VR 731) as I found it in the Northern Territory of AU, from research that I had conducted and also a mate in the NT Museum, we know that nearly all the BGC used in the NT were disposed of in the NT.
Looking through the AWM pics, looking at pics from the NT and observing what units they had in Darwin at the time, I then researched the unit diary and, after months of research, finding the needle in the hay stack.
VR731 is a 3" mortar carrying vehicle and by chance, the unit diary writer had made mention of having 22 MG carriers and 6 mortar carriers on the unit (10/48 Inf Batt AIF) resource list.

as a suggestion: The ARN record may have the ship listed, then look at pics of BGC in the Med or Nth Africa or other associated reference material and you may find some info in the general area of this vehicle or units that may have used it.

Some of these hulls have info painted where the tracks run on the side of the hull, shipment numbers etc that may also assist. I had a UC that served in Nth Africa and was acquired by AU soldiers and shipped back to AU, it had its shipment or auction numbers painted on it. It has since been sold back to the UK for restoration.

Good luck

[Mike Cecil]

Plushy,

In Middle East images, you will be looking for a carrier with a registration of AIF-T-16594 on the front track guard - usually the right side - and rear, not '750'.

Once returned to Australia, it would have been renumbered with the hull number, the hull number having been applied to carriers as the registration number from late 1941 onwards, with most changed over in 1942.

So in images taken in Australia, you will be looking for '750' as the registration on the hull sides & rear.

Clear as mud!

MV Talabot made two trips to the Middle East with vehicles aboard. Your carrier was one of 30 on the second trip.

Mike

[Plushy]

Hi Mike and Darrin,
Thanks for the tips for what too look for in photos during my search . I have managed to find the Convoy numbers and dates for the Thermopylae and the Talabot and the Port of unloading which was Haifa in Palestine/Israel on the 22/12/41 .The Talabot then Left Haifa on the 1/1/42 on its way to Fremantle .

So to narrow the search i just need to look for Carrier images from Palestine and the Syria Lebanon region in Early 1942 .

Looks like i might have my work cut out for me ,still its all part of the fun .

James.

[Mike Cecil]

Plushy,

Interesting info about MV Talabot and the delivery into Haifa.

As an aside from the main theme of this thread, it must have been a quick trip to Fremantle and back (no record of carrying Aust equipment on the return trip to the Middle East), as the ship joined convoy MW10 (Alex to Malta) on 20 March 42 carrying military stores and food. It reached Malta, only to be lost to enemy aircraft at No.6 Berth, Grand Harbour at Malta on March 26. Some equipment was salvaged from the half-sunken wreck, the upper decks being above the water line. It received plenty of attention from the enemy thereafter, being repeatedly bombed during air raids.

I suppose it was better the enemy wasted their bombs on the wreck rather than finding some other more valuable target.

Mike

[Plushy]

Mike,
A very quick trip Talabot arrived in Fremantle on the 24/1/42 and Left again for Haifa on the 31/1/42 arriving in Haifa 23/2/42 then to Alexandria 3/3 for its final Journey . Attached is the 2nd Part of the Log book with Arrival and Departure dates .

I Found a web page which shows all the Norwegian Merchant ships involved in WW2 and also shows quite a few of the ship logs but nothing of Cargo manifests .

James.

[Darrin Wright]

Interesting departure dates for the ship and the BGC cargo.

Along my research travels, I read somewhere (may be the Vic Archives) that hull VR731 was delivered to the Army approx 1st or 2nd week of Dec 1941.

I would assume that hull VR750 would be about the same delivery time ;therefore, it must have been taken on charge and loaded for the middle east straight away.

[Plushy]

According to the AWM Carrier book Thermopylae sailed on the 22/11/41 according to the ships book it Sailed on the 22/11/41 .

With the Talabot the sailing date ship log vs AWM carrier book is 16/11 vs the 17/11 so not sure if the shipping date in the carrier book is the loading date or sailing date . .

Darrin that maybe still correct as during my search last night i found photos of Carriers Embarking at the Port of Suez so guessing its possible a few were taken off there as the Talabot docked there on the 12/12/41 but didn`t sail again until the 13/12 .

I Assume the Carriers and Trucks may have been shipped stowed on the deck making removal and loading easiest ?

[Mike Cecil]

Plushy - James,

The dates given and sometimes the places, can vary from the AWM books. Usually the place of loading matches the place of issue, but not in all cases. Some vehicles shown as 'M' for example, were actually driven to Sydney and loaded there, (so should be an 'S' in the books). Same with the dates, which can vary up to a couple of days from the listed date of sailing in the ships log, so are more likely to be the issue date, ie the date sent for loading, than the actual date of sailing, but there are many where the dates in the AWM books match the sailing date, too.

Bottom line: don't take the dates as gospel, but being approximately right - certainly the entries are correct in terms of ship name and hence voyage number, but are 'a-round-about' in terms of dates.

Another classic example is the WW1 troop embarkation rolls: in some instances, troops from different units are listed as embarking on the same day but in different ports, others are listed in a certain port, but the unit war diary shows the ship loading them in a different port. In one instance, the ship reported as the transport wasn't even in Australian waters when it was supposedly loading troops! It transhipped the troops from the actual transport in Ceylon (Sri Lanka).

Same with the unloading: just because Haifa was the last port of call does not mean the carriers and other vehicles aboard Talabot were offloaded there. From other data I have, it appears the AIF ME Base was normally supplied through the Port of Suez, so would seem a more likely off-loading point, but you may have unearthed some piece of information that indicates otherwise for the [I]Talabot[I] shipment?

Mike

[Plushy]

Mike,
Agreed on the "a-round-about" dates judging by the differences you have pointed out .

You definitely know more about wartime shipping than me my deductions a kind of based on this passage and the equipment available in the 40`s for loading and unloading ships ;

Thermopylæ left again the following day for Alexandria, arrived March 11 and loaded tanks, trucks and Australian troops for Greece. Following a horrendous sand storm, she left on March 14 in a convoy consisting of 7 ships with a very strong escort (A. Hague has her in Convoy AG 6 - external link; Brattdal is also listed), reaching Piræus safely (where they noticed there were hardly any young men left; they were all at the front fighting), departing again a couple of days later for Alexandria, and though the convoy was attacked by aircraft south of Crete, it again reached its destination without losses (? she's included, again with Brattdal, as well as Solheim, in Convoy AS 21 - also external page, but note that Solheim was sunk, as was a Greek ship). See also Page 1.

found on this page: https://www.warsailors.com/singleships/thermopylae.html

It mentions above that it took 3 days to load the ship at Alexandria including the dust storm which i read in a Maori units diary was on the 14th of march and went for most of the day . So figuring at least 2 full days to load/unload a ship ? So at least a day to unload/load half a ship ?

So based on the dates in the logs i figured longest time spent was Port Haifa so guessing unloaded there . Though the Talabot did spend 2 days in Aden but figured that was too far from the Front and it only stayed over night in Suez 12/12 and sailed 13/12 but the dates maybe "a-round-about " too . SO mostly guessing i suppose .

All just best guess until i can find the Unit that got the carrier and evidence of it being there .

James.

[Mike Cecil]

James,

I think your theorising is very reasonable and valuable, so please keep building the picture as you turn up more data.

Talabot unloading some or all of the military component of its cargo at Suez is still a distinct possibility. For example, docking in the early hours of day one, and departing late evening or at night on day 2 would provide two full work days shifts, plus an evening and night shifts to complete unloading, and head back to sea (especially if there was no loading to be done at Suez).

Mike

[Plushy]

So made a trip up to Wodonga last weekend and picked up this Hull from Ian Pullen who was nice enough to sell it too me and an absolute legend for helping me to get it onto the trailer .
This will give me a much better Hull to start the restoration with .

Hull is Met Gas 1110







James.

[Luke R]

Looks like the start of an awesome project James!