Ford F60L with Triple (and Quad) Polsten AA guns

[Hanno Spoelstra]

See Depot Kapellen, 250606 for a picture of the surviving Ford F60L with triple Polsten AA guns. It is owned by the Brussels Tank Museum, but held in their depot at Kapellen, Belgium. As far as I know this is the only remaining example of this type.

If anyone has further info about its design, manufacture or use, please post here.

Thanks

[austin tilly]

I was at the depot last sunday.

What I heard was that the polsten and rear were not original, but were mounted ater. The chassis and cabine are original. Unfortunately I forgot to photograph the informationsheet of the Ford.





Cheers
Arjan van der Hoek

[Les Freathy]

Its an interesting subject this and one i would like to learn more about
i have posted this original photo of the said vehicle, one wonders how effective it was. Any body out there with more data and details
somewhere i have a not so good illustration of the quad mount which i will post once located
Les

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here are some of the pictures I made of this truck in 2004. For more large size scans see my G503 album.




Build date 1946 - that is surprising, eh? Who knows what R.O.F.H. stand for?

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Who knows what R.O.F.H. stand for?

Royal Ordnance Factory - Hooton (Cheshire) ?

Factory No.10 incidentally.

R.

[Les Freathy]

Hi Hanno
I promised to look out the illustation of the quad mounted Polstens on the CMP chassis, also a shot of the trailer mount and it dismounted sorry the quality is a bit poor
Cheers
Les

[Les Freathy]

Just for good measure and as we are discussing Canadian AA guns here are two shots of the trialled Canadian Bantam 40 mm and the lightweight trailer. I have a copy bulletin but who can add further details
Les

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

"Twin Oerlikons" on C60L

http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/polsten2.jpg

Captioned "Mobile Experiment", and no I can't count!

[horsa]

This same mount was used on a limited number of Crusader hulls for the AA role around the Normandy time period. There were three variations of AA Crusaders with "Mark" designations and the type with triple guns would have been a Mark IV but appears to never have been given a type/model designation.

[Gunner]

Hi David:

I think you will note that the photo you posted is of the twin Polsten, a mount that had the two guns side by side. The RCN was unsatisfied with the range and lethality of this mount and had it re-engineered to take a single 40mm creating the famous (in Canadian Navy and Bird Gunner circles) "Boffin" mount (a contraction of "Bofors" and "Oerlikon")

These saw service on naval vessels for some years and were subsequently stored when the HMCS Bonaventure and HMCS Magnificent went for razor blades in the 1960's. They were pulled out of mothballs in the 1970's to serve as fixed airfield air defences on our two bases in Germany. A number were fixed on ranges in Canada for training the Air Defence batteries of the RCA until they were superceded by the twin 35mm Skyguard system.

These venerable mountings are still earning their keep as close in defence weapons on our coastal defence vessels. Built in 1942 and still going strong!

Cheers! Mike

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I thought that these were produced by Regina Industries Ltd but now believe that the mountings were built in Oshawa, although single-mount Oerlikons were built by Regina Industries Ltd, Regina, Sask. It seems that the Border City Industries Ltd, Walker Road, Windsor, Plant produced Brownings.

http://www.nostalgiaroad.co.uk/oerlikon.jpg

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Regina Industries:

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Gunner
Hi David:

I think you will note that the photo you posted is of the twin Polsten, a mount that had the two guns side by side. The RCN was unsatisfied with the range and lethality of this mount and had it re-engineered to take a single 40mm creating the famous (in Canadian Navy and Bird Gunner circles) "Boffin" mount (a contraction of "Bofors" and "Oerlikon")

These saw service on naval vessels for some years and were subsequently stored when the HMCS Bonaventure and HMCS Magnificent went for razor blades in the 1960's. They were pulled out of mothballs in the 1970's to serve as fixed airfield air defences on our two bases in Germany. A number were fixed on ranges in Canada for training the Air Defence batteries of the RCA until they were superceded by the twin 35mm Skyguard system.

These venerable mountings are still earning their keep as close in defence weapons on our coastal defence vessels. Built in 1942 and still going strong!

Cheers! Mike

While we're all familiar with the common 20mm, 40mm, and 2 pdr. Pom-poms used for low level air defence onboard our warships during WW II, I've not seen many pics of .50 Brownings mounted. I have found one pic of a twin water cooled mount, unfortunately the ship isn't identified. Does anyone know how common the placement of Brownings was aboard our ships?

[Alex van de Wetering]

I came across these pictures on the "Archief Eemland" website, the city archives of Amersfoort.

First picture was taken on 4 june 1945, during a demonstration of Canadian military equipment. On the left you can see two Anti-aircraft CMP's, one with Bofors 40mm and one with quad Polsten.

The second picture is probably the same vehicle on it's way to the demo.

source: www.archiefeemland.nl

Alex

[sapper740]

I have a few pictures of various AA mounts on CMPs that I've been saving for an appropriate forum, one of which appears to be of a twin Bofors on an F60. Unless I'm missing something, like another truck or trailer behind, this picture appears to be of a twin 40mm Bofors

[sapper740]

Another picture that may be of a one off design is this twin .50 mount on a CMP.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Unless I'm missing something, like another truck or trailer behind, this picture appears to be of a twin 40mm Bofors

Derek, I think it's actually a spare barrel we are looking at, laying on the left hand side of the CMP.

Alex

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by sapper740

Another picture that may be of a one off design is this twin .50 mount on a CMP.

Trying again.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by sapper740

Unless I'm missing something, like another truck or trailer behind, this picture appears to be of a twin 40mm Bofors

Derek, like Alex said, this is a single 40-mm Bofors mount with a spare barrel stowed along the side.

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Derek, I think it's actually a spare barrel we are looking at, laying on the left hand side of the CMP.

Could very well be Alex, as I doubt a 60cwt truck could carry the weight of two Bofors. Unfortunately, the detail in this picture isn't very good. I wonder if it was it common to carry spare barrels onboard the truck? Derek.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

The second picture is probably the same vehicle on it's way to the demo.

All nicely done up with white accents - reminds me of the "whitewall" tyres the Soviets used on their parade vehicles.

Thanks Alex!

[Derek Barton]

A spare barrel was standard equipment on both the Ford and Morris SP Bofors. It was carried exactly as shown in the photo.

As to the triple Polsten, 93 LAA Rgt was the only British unit to have these truck mounted. They were one of the first AA units across the Rhine as the rafts being used would not take towed guns.

[Noel Burgess]

Some posts back Sapper asked about 0.50s on US Warships see http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_50cal-M2_MG.htm for some WW2 and modern info. which on the "additional pictures" page, includes pictures of the Army quad mount installed on USS Lexington in 1945.
Noel

[Neil Ashley]

I assume the quad Polsten in Alex van de Wetering post is a prototype?

From memory two Skinks and two towed examples were sent two NW Europe for trials.

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by horsa

This same mount was used on a limited number of Crusader hulls for the AA role around the Normandy time period. There were three variations of AA Crusaders with "Mark" designations and the type with triple guns would have been a Mark IV but appears to never have been given a type/model designation.

Dave I have pics of the three "Marks" you mention, one with a twin mount, not sure it they're fifties or 20mm, one with a single 40mm, and the triple Polsten. Here's one hull down in Normandy, July 19, 1944:

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by Noel Burgess

Some posts back Sapper asked about 0.50s on US Warships
seehttp://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_50cal-M2_MG.htmfor some WW2 and modern info. which on the "additional pictures" page, includes pictures of the Army quad mount installed on USS Lexington in 1945.
Noel

Thanks Noel! for the link to this excellent web site. Did you notice what was stencilled on the ammo can holder for the twin .50? FDNY: Fire Department of New York. A little payback for Sept. 11th, I imagine. It was interesting to see the quad .50 mounted on the USS Lexington, I didn't realize they had been mounted on Navy vessels. I was onboard the "Lady Lex", which has been preserved in Corpus Christi, a few years back but the quad mount was no more.

[Alex van de Wetering]

I assume the quad Polsten in Alex van de Wetering post is a prototype?

From memory two Skinks and two towed examples were sent two NW Europe for trials.

Here is the same (?) crew during a demo in The Hague 21 may 1945.

source: http://www.gemeentearchief.denhaag.nl

Alex

[Neil Ashley]

Alex

Thanks for the additional picture.

No one else seems to have picked up on this but presumably this is a totaly new version of this vehicle?. Presumably a workshop mod to subsitute the normal three gun mount to this later model.

It would be interesting to know if indeed this one one of the guns trailed in Europe late in the war.

[Keith Webb]

These are as large as the images get I'm afraid, but I haven't seen this setup before. Images came from the Dutch Defence research site http://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/be...archfield=Ford
The link is to search for Ford, you can also search for Chevrolet

[Alex van de Wetering]

Keith,

It certainly looks like a powerfull combo, very much similar to the german FLAK trucks and halftracks.

Have a look here for some more shots and info: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6473

on a side note....I wouldn't be surprised if the pictures of the vehicle in post-war Dutch service and the one(s) during demo's in may 1945 are all one and the same vehicle.

Alex