Canadian Ferrets 1975 CFB Meaford

[Robin Craig]

Ed,

I come here to learn and to put things in order, I don't mind an education or a friendly jab in the ribs about Land Rovers either

It is through discussion here that I am to learn like this.

Thanks for the education, and by the way, did you know the Wilks brother used a Jeep chassis for their prototype Land Rover?

[Robin Craig]

Would not the modification instruction C-30-541-000/CF-030 Stowage, Browning Machine-Gun tripod issue 1-11 Sep 1964 be the ultimate smoking gun document for the change over for the Bren to the .30 Cal?

This is the one that details the stowage of the tripod on the left engine deck cover.

So, that then triggers the question, does anyone have a picture of a Canadian Ferret with the left engine deck without the fittings?

[Robin Craig]

This one belonging to Neil Smith in Florida appears to be such a vehicle

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=21069

[Ed Storey]

Perhaps 'smoking gun' is a bit too optimistic, but at least it gives you a general time period.

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Ed and Robin,

Was Canada still using the M1919A4 in the mid-60s or had they been upgraded/modified to L3A3/L3A4 standard? In other words, did Canada modify the .30 cals in service to L3A3/L3A4 standard (and maybe called them something Canadian with a 'C' prefix?) or did they persist with the M1919A4 'as was' until the changeover to the 7.62 mm GPMG? Be interested in your comments on this aspect.

Regards

Mike

[rob love]

We did not adopt the L prefix. They were modified beginning around 1967 and then became the C-1 GPMG. They remained with that designation until the about 1979 when defects were corrected with a major upgrade and they were redisignated C5A1.

I have the some of the modification instructions at home for both of these changes, so could verify those dates if need be, but they will be pretty close.

[David Dunlop]

I have a Canadian Army Battalion level Machine Gun Manual dated 1962 with some 1964 revisions in it and it refers exclusively to the M1919 as a .30 cal weapon, if that helps.

David

[Mike Cecil]

Thanks, Gents, so the CDN Army went from the M1919A4 in .30 cal to the C1/C1A1 in 7.62mm.

Interesting and a contrast to the Aust Army that opted to retain the .30 cal round up until the withdrawal of the L3A3/L3A4 (ie modified M1919A4) in about 2005 when the T50(Aust) turret was removed from the M113A1 APC/LRV fleet during the upgrade to M113(AS)4.

Thanks

Mike

[Ed Storey]

Mike, as Rob listed early in this string the lineage was as follows - .30 cal M1919A4 - 7.62mm C1 GPMG - 7.62mm C5A1 GPMG.

[45jim]

If the Centurion is crewed (as it seems here) then the 75/76 time frame is most likely more correct, right at the very end of the Centurion in Canada. I had read somewhere the last use of the Centurion at Meaford was Gun camp, spring 76. I believe the 5/4 ton entered service in late 75/early 76.

The modification to the Ferret engine door for the GPMG tripod is not coincident with the issue of the weapon to replace the Bren. As usual, the change in weapon was made and over time modifications were introduced to assist in kit stowage or solve problems that cropped up with service use. One of the Strathcona Ferret monuments was never so modified, perhaps because this mod was only completed during depot overhauls which tend to slow down as the vehicle is nearing retirement. Looking for an exact date of the change and believing it actually occurred on that date is dubious at best.