What model carburator is on the GMC Fox Armoured Car?

[Jim Burrill]

Hi folks,
Anyone have a parts manual for the Fox to hand and can look up something for me?

Have been trying to find hen's teeth with unobtanium grills on them....

That is a wartime Solex 40/RZINEO carb for my Humber Armoured car.

Several folks have been looking who have Humber Mk4s and also the Humber Scout Cars which use the same engine.

Some post war carbs that are supposedly a post war replacement have turned out to have all been modified for a constant speed usage - i.e. for a generator , compressor or pump.

We are looking at a modern Rocester carb for a similar sized engine and doing some testing this weekend.

But it dawned on me that the Fox - being a twin brother to the Humber - might use a Chevy carb that might still be around.

Does anyone know what model that is?

Better yet, does anyone know where to buy one?

Even better, do you have one (or two) for sale???

Any experiances with the carb - on a Fox or not - I would love to hear of it.

Cheers,
Jim

[Stefan Leegwater]

Hi Jim.

If you look on Dirks Www.lwdparts.com at the canadian armour parts section, you will find that carb.

Cheers.

Stefan

[Jim Burrill]

Thanks Stefan for the lead.

I had heard also from Bruce Parker and found one last night that is NOS.

But I hadn't been to the site in a while and found a part for a Fox that I can use on my Humber Mk4 - the driver's head pad!

Sent a request for postage costs on the website contact.

We guessed at making our own, but would be great to have a real one!

Thanks!!!
Jim

[lssah2025]

Stefan, that is not the carb we need, those are Solex 35-40 and I have 5 of them and they are the ones that were modified or used for something else.

This is the exact same carb and they work very poorly in low speed, gear, they are slow as >>>>>>

Originally Posted by Stefan Leegwater

Hi Jim.

If you look on Dirks Www.lwdparts.com at the canadian armour parts section, you will find that carb.

Cheers.

Stefan

[motto]

I must be on a different page of the lwd site. What I see is a Carter W1 which is stated to be of the type used on Canadian armoured vehicles and the C60X (6x6 truck). The C60X used a 270 cubic inch engine so this carburettor may also suit the Staghound T17E1 which used twin 270s.
Hope this is of some help.

David

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by motto

I must be on a different page of the lwd site. What I see is a Carter W1 which is stated to be of the type used on Canadian armoured vehicles and the C60X (6x6 truck). The C60X used a 270 cubic inch engine so this carburettor may also suit the Staghound T17E1 which used twin 270s.
Hope this is of some help.

David

Hi David,
It is on the page of parts for British vehicles.

[motto]

Originally Posted by Stefan Leegwater

Hi Jim.

If you look on Dirks Www.lwdparts.com at the canadian armour parts section, you will find that carb.

Cheers.

Stefan

Thanks Richard, it was Stefan's reference to 'canadian armour parts section' that threw me.

Dave

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Carter W1 is used on 216 Chev engines. The 270 GM engine on armoured vehicles and the C60X uses a Zenith 28A.

[lssah2025]

OK Canadian portion not UK portion, need new glasses, ohh yea I don't wear glasses, glad we figured that out

[Grant Bowker]

According to the C60X-04 parts list, the maintenance manual M660-C1and the service bulletins, early C60X used the Zenith 28AV11 type (also given as 28AVII) while later used the Carter W1-589S dust sealed carburetor. I don't know the Zenith part number but the GM part number was 5814938 and this should appear on the ID disc on top of the carburetor along with the Zenith number (28AV11 is a range, not a precise part number). I don't know the breakpoint for the changeover but suggest it might have been at the start of the 1944 production at the same time as the change in the brake system, T-case shifter, hub slings, moved coolant recovery tank, round gauges. I haven't seen enough original C60X to be able to confirm or deny the use of the Carter.

[Mike Cecil]

Not sure if this helps or hinders but my parts lists are as follows:

(1) C60X-03, dated January 1944, lists the carbie as 'Part Number 2135998, Carburetor assembly. (When stocks depleted use 5814938) (Zenith Model 28AV11).

(2) The Illustrated spare parts list for Canadian Armoured Car GM Mk.1, model AC-chassis 8446, dated March 1942, and relevant to contract numbers British: Supply Mechanical 1077; Australian D463/202H; Canadian CDLV 125 and 227, the carbie listed is 'Part Number 2135998, Carburetor assembly (Zenith Model 28AV11).

Neither list (1942 or early 1944) mentions a Carter carbie as an alternative. Note that the 2135998 change to 5814938 was 'when stocks depleted', rather than as a product improvement changeover.

Mike C

[Grant Bowker]

With C60X-03 dated January 1944 and C60X-04 dated January 1945 it seems that any change to Carter carburetors for the C60X would have happened (or possibly only been planned to happen) between those dates.
My list for the Fox (CAC-02, dated February 1943) also makes no mention of a Carter option.
In a listing of Approved Vehicle Parts Lists for Canadian Army Vehicles dated September 1949, CAC-02 and C60X-04 are the last published versions of the parts lists mentioned for the Fox and C60X respectively.
Based on these lists I would guess that the Carter could have been used in late C60X but wasn't likely used on the Fox. This doesn't mean that the Carter might not work well in a Fox since they both used the 270 engine, but there doesn't seem to be a parts listing of production of Fox with Carter.
It is quoted that there were 2710 C60X produced with about 1500 going to Russia. CDLV407 dated Dec 41 was for 500 vehicles (I believe this was the start of series production) http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7491. C60X produced in Aug 42 seem to have been CDLV 587 and Dec 42 to Jun 43 CDLV1516. I don't know how many were in the last 2 contracts mentioned, which other contracts existed for the C60X or the dates and numbers involved.

[Mike Cecil]

.... and 468 C60X went to Australia, so that's nearly 2,000 accounted for in exports to two allies, from a reported total production of 2,710, leaving 700 to 800 in CDN service, or did the Brits get some as well?

Mike C

[Stefan Leegwater]

Unfortunately I do not have a lot of time to dig into this, but in a quick look in a Staghound book, they mention that for this type they used the Carter W1 carb. I bet it is adjusted to the bigger 270 engine.

Kind regards,

Stefan

[Stefan Leegwater]

two more pictures!

In the C15TA (also 270 engine) they used zenith and Carter W1-589S Dustproof this is the one we have for sale.

Regards,

Stefan

[Jim Burrill]

I found this on ebay:1936 1937 38 1939 1940 1941 42 43 44 45 46 GMC Chevy Zenith NEW Carburetor 28A11

And Bruce had told me this:
"The Fox carb is a Zenith 28A VII series. I don't know how common they are but bet they are because I think they are also used on GMC CCKW's etc and more than likely on pre and post war civilian GM trucks. The good thing (if they are available) is that they are the right size for a vehicle like a Humber. I imagine they could be adapted to your manifold with a simple custom plate. The hose and throttle hookups might need some thinking.

I can't tell you how the Fox is on hills (I'm in SW Ontario. We don't HAVE any hills) but from loading I expect it would not do well. It is a loaded 3 ton truck and even CMP 60 cwts (with a 216 and not a 270 I agree) barely haul their empty weight up long, slow hills. It was not uncommon for me to crawl up hills labouring in 3rd gear yet too many revs for second. If I has to guess I bet both your Humber and my Fox were never great on hills. The best I've done on a flat highway is just over 30 mph. I think I could have coaxed more out of her but it would have taken work."

I will see when this comes in and then get a fresh rebuild kit to replace all the diaphragms and rubber.

We are also pursuing using a more modern Rochester single barrel carb.