NZ carrier movie

[Mike Kelly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlbXhVcaJ0Q

[David Hardway]

What do you think is on the front of the carrier at 1:46.

Makers plate maybe? odd position if it is these would normally be on the right front guard for an LP2

Dave

[Lynn Eades]

I don't think so Dave.
Is it a piece of paper taped top and bottom?
Notifying a fault?, Lacking a part?, End of production for the day or week?
What ever it is, I think just a temporary thing.
I suspect anyone who knew, is past answering. Just my opinion.

[Rob Beale]

Wasn't one carrier paid for by the towns folk of Pahiatua or some small town?

It could be a plaque or label?

Rob

[Jim Baker]

Is any one familiar with a movie of carriers being assembled at the General Motors plant in Petone? It was shown at the 1981 NZMVCC rally in Wanganui. It belonged to General Motors. I wonder where it is now?

[Rob Beale]

I never got to that rally as I was on my OE.

Ross and Leonie may know, as they got some data from the GM records.

Rob

[Lynn Eades]

Jim. If it had lasted until 1981, surely it has been archived somewhere.
Rob, is it included in the P.Jackson stuff? I don't recall it there.

[Tony Smith]

Remember all the discussions we had about 5 spoke carrier wheels? There are several in this video shown as fitted to NEW carriers, the best pic at around the 0:51 mark.

[Lynn Eades]

Tony, on that note, Who or where did the "U" prefix come from? I assume it refers to Australian Universal Carrier. I know many LP2/2a parts are marked this way.
I have tried to obtain an Australian carrier parts book for some years with no success. ( I am currently offering up to $200.00 on gum tree)
Anyhow, pics of two 5 spokes I had with "U" part numbers

[Andrew Rowe]

Lynn, I thought the U stamped meant an "Under carriage " component, as part of their numbering system.

[Lynn Eades]

I don't know Andrew. I was hoping to find out more and you have thown in something new.
I was just assuming U for Universal, so U for Undercarriage is as good. I was more wondering if it was a makers I.D.

[Rob Beale]

I agree with Andrew about the U prefix as all the other part numbers are just numerals.

I've never seen the movie Jim mentioned. It would be great to locate it.
There are photos around of carrier production in the NZR (LP1) and GM (LP2) workshops, (as well as Mason and Porter doing tracks)

The movie at the top of this thread has been available for a while.

Lets hope Archives NZ locate and release it. Fingers crossed!

Rob

[The Bedford Boys]

I think my 5 spoke wheels have different part numbers to the ones in Lynns pictures, will check when I get home.

[Rob Beale]

And here is another pair of 5 spokers on our Gisborne LP2, Hull no 229.

I reckon the first LP2 was no 41. I can't prove it yet, but 229 had Wellington East Coast Mounted Rifles markings from 1942, and the first 200 produced went to the MR regiments.

I have noticed that early production photos and the video, shows five spokers on the front adjusters, while the road wheels are standard six spokers.

Next thing is to change the jack for a commercial Ford jack, and raise the top brace on the bracket. See the pic in the GM assembly plant.

Rob

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Rob Beale

And here is another pair of 5 spokers on our Gisborne LP2, Hull no 229.

I have noticed that early production photos and the video, shows five spokers on the front adjusters, while the road wheels are standard six spokers.

Rob

The video shows them in a variety of positions. This carrier at 1:47 has them fitted as all 4 on the left side:

[Roddy de Normann]

Rob -

Are there any archive listings showing which hull number went to which regiment ? Also, did any NZ carriers get shipped to UK or N Africa ?

Many thanks

Roddy

[Rob Beale]

The only listing around is a census of vehicles done in 1949.
This is now held by the Army museum in Waiouru.

The list shows NZ numbers and a description of the vehicle make and model, country of origin, and which of the 3 military districts it was in at that time (1949). At this time the standard nomenclature used overseas was adopted, so there are some repeats where a vehicle is shown by new and old descriptions.

There are very few early NZ numbers in the list as these seem to have been issued to impressed vehicles and the existing prewar vehicles, which were all disposed of during the war or soon afterwards.

There is no pattern to the numbers, except for some large batches of vehicles like Indian Motorcycles and GMC trucks with sequential numbers. Most of the other vehicle types are scattered with small numbers here and there.

My guess is that they were issued perhaps at depots or at the units as they received them. I don't think they were issued at the assembly plants.

Period photos are the best clue, but they are not plentiful. Often the markings are visible but not the NZ number, and vice versa.

As far as overseas service goes, I believe NZ based vehicles were used solely in the Pacific Campaign (Solomons), by the south pacific island garrisons New Caledonia, Fiji, Tonga etc, or for training at home.

There is a reference to some trucks being sent from NZ to the Middle East, (which may have been Ford 4x2 types), but remember NZ was in dire straits in 1942, with the Japanese advancing south.
The LP2 carriers were built between late 1941 and 1942, and the orders for tactical vehicles (tracked armour and all wheel drive soft skins) not arriving till late 42 and into 43.
El Alamein was Oct 42, and there had been a flood of vehicles arriving in North Africa to reinforce the 8th Army before then. (Some obsolete vehicles like CMP 2 pounder portees came to NZ (and Aussie) as the guns were still effective against Japanese armour).

Shipping was at a premium at this time. From early in the war, NZ was supplying food to the UK, (and later to US forces in the South Pacific), as well as reinforcements for 2NZ Div, and Aircrew for the RAF and Navy Personnel for the RN. It was about this time that the RNZAF and RNZN started operating in the South Pacific as well as the early elements of 3NZ Div.

I don't see the sense in shipping CKD vehicles from Canada or USA across the Pacific to be assembled in NZ, then shipping them across the Indian Ocean to Egypt. There were assembly plants in Egypt already.
Also the LP carriers do not have parts commonality with Universal Carriers.

We know that Aussie LP1 were taken to Greece and the Middle East, but also suffered from a lack of spares. Also Aussie LP2 and 2A were used in the South West Pacific (New Guinea, and New Britain).
The NZ LP1 were non armoured, so stayed home. And NZ LP2 were found ineffective in the Solomons, so the Carrier Platoons became infantry.

This covers a bit of ground but that's my reasoning!

Rob

[Lynn Eades]

Great post Rob. The only thing you left out (IMHO)(and you've covered it before, anyhow) is the LP2s that the U.S forces took up into the islands.

For Roddy, The nearest thing to sending one of our carriers to the U.K was sending one of the Schofield tanks to Bovington. They scrapped it!

I will add for interests sake, during 1942, New Zealand held on strength 400 Stuart tanks and 255 Valentine tanks. (from the official history)
Where'd they go?

[Rob Beale]

The Kiwi armour in the Pacific campaign was a squadron of Valentines, including the Kiwi converted 3" Howitzer Close Support version.
There are also descriptions of the mating of 40mm Bofors High Explosive shells to 2 pounder cartridges to give the 2 pounder tanks a HE capability for dealing with anti tank guns etc.
(Apparently they also did the 2 pounder solid shot shell onto the 40mm bofors cartridge to give the bofors an anti tank capability! No evidence that it was ever used though).

The Stuarts were a mixture of M3 Hybrids with the M3A1 turret, and true M3A1 models. The Hybrid was only fit for training, and there were many complaints that it was not battleworthy.

A few carriers were swapped or sold, and one survivor on Guadalcanal is likely to be NZ built, though it can't be confirmed. Some went to New Caledonia and one of these is now in France I hear.

The 2 NZ Div sourced all its vehicles from Britain, including British, Canadian and US manufacture. These were all left in Europe at the end of the war.

Small numbers of British made vehicles were purchased before, during and after the war, but our home based wartime fleet was predominantly US and Canadian supplied.

Howzat, Rob

[Tony Smith]

Nothing to do with this movie, but hope this gets the K1w1 carrier crew's attention.

Is this LP2/2A?:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-...-777880003.htm

[Lynn Eades]

Yes, and there is a forum member on the bidding list.

[Roddy de Normann]

Rob -

Many thanks for your excellent reply...of course you can probably guess my next question...how do I obtain a copy of the 1949 Veh Census...indeed, does anyone out there have one ?

Roddy