Info needed: Cab 11 Doors

[Owen Evans]

Got my doors back from media blasting, to find that they are quite a bit worse than they first appeared. The door hinges are somewhat shagged too. Most of the repair work should be reasonably pain-free, but has anyone managed to find suitable replacement hinges for the Cab 11/12 doors? Or had any success in repairing them or getting new ones fabricated?

Thanks,
Owen.

[Jonathan Moore]

Morning Owen,

Any pictures so we can see how bad they are. What do the hinges look like on a 11 cab?

Jon

[Owen Evans]

Hello Jonathan,

These are the only photos I have on my PC at the moment (I'm sat at work ). The hinge in the photo is the best one, and with a new hinge pin may be serviceable. The others are much worse; the folded parts into which the hinge pin locates are long gone.

The attached photo of reproduction Ford Model A hinges looks quite similar, and may potentially be a basis to start from. The long ones anyway. Does anybody know the dimensions of the Model A hinges?

Thanks,
Owen.

[Jonathan Moore]

Oh my, they are quite rusty but probably nothing that can't be fixed, some photo's of the whole door would be nice. I suppose, if someone has some in good condition then that would be the easiest option but if not, then you or someone is going to have to use what they can and recreate what's needed. It shouldn't be that difficult but if you have to pay someone, it's the time that's the problem. As for the hinges, the longer Ford ones look like they could used if they are somewhere near dimensionally correct.

Jonathan

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Owen


Your doors look to be about typical so just take time replace the rusted sections. Now as to new hinges for Pattern 11 or 12 or for that mater any CMP new or NOS replacements are scarce as hens teeth.


When I restored my Pat 12 back 12-13 years ago when I got to the point of fitting the doors to the cab figured I'd make some "temporary" replacements till I could find replacements. As you can guess the "temporary" hinges are still on the truck and working fine.



Took the approach what would a mechanic out in the desert of North Africa do if he needed door hinges, other than take them off another truck. He would make them out of what he had at hand.


Mine are made from some heavy tubing stock which had ID of 3/8 inch cut and welded to some 1/4 inch floor plate. Pins are just 3/8 inch bolts with the heads filed down. Simple and crude but they work just fine. They have the added bonus of if I want to drive with the doors off just drive out the pin.


The only thing I might improve on if I made new ones was to work where the weld hits at the door full open. Door go past 90 degrees but do not open all the way back. But the door straps keep them from doing that anyway.




One last shimming the door while fitting, I had a whole bunch of refrigerator magnets and used them to shim the door square in the opening while I fitted the doors. Will try and find a photo of that process.


Cheers Phil

[Bob Carriere]

There were a few old MLU postings concerning rebuilding doors. One of which is mine. Most doors are rusted out at least the bottom third and new metal is needed..... a total new skin inside and out it easier than patching. The door frame U shape can be made locally by a steel fabricator who will bend some U shape strips which you will need to bend/stretch to fit the arch curve of the door frame. A simple wooden form made from 2x8 hard wood is fine. Apply heat to the u shape form and bend down to match the curve buck!!nThe Unique cab 11/12 hinges are NOT available anywhere that I know of and will need to be fabricated from 1/4 thick stock unless you can find some old ones. The Ford models available require too much rewelding of holes and redrilling to be worth the $$$ asked.

A blacksmith/fabricator should be able to make reproductions if you have at least one good one to work from. Pins should be standard Chev 1/4 inch or 5/16....if the pins are loose tap a few marks with a center punch on the pin shaft to tighten them....... as Phil pointed out it is convenient to be able to remove the doors so the pin has only a head at the top end.

The hinges are a weak part of the early cab design..... they twist and distort easily......and the flexibilty to line up the doors comes in handy.
Another weakness of the door frame is at the locking mechanism... the U shape frame is usually cracked. Also where the limiting strap is bolted to the hinge side of the door the U shape frame is usually twisted unless it has been reinforced in it's previous life. Cab 11 did not have a limiting strap and it is not unusual to see Canadian trucks on parade square with the driver's door fully opened against the cargo box.... I suspect they even tied the door handle to the cargo box to keep it flapping around. Part of the reason for leaving the door open is that ti is such a pain to get in and out.....try doing that while wearing heavy Winter clothing.....practical experience in North Africa was to remove and loose the doors very early while in action.

If you need exact measurements I will sketch something from my stock as it should be posted on MLU for future reference.

See what you can find in the restoration thread or under the Hammond barn from a few years back. I will dig up in my photo library for information.

Getting a door repaired/reskinned is a $400 to 500 dollar job in a regular body shop....... don't forget the door handles are FORD 1935/36 UTILITY and LWD has them in stock so as MAC AUTO in chromed format.

Bob C.

[Bob Carriere]

I used 4 doors to make two good ones ...plus some new stock and inner and outer skins.

Found all my photos.... ready to answer your questions....3 ? for a 0.25

....I may need to do a proper......Basic 101......cab 11 door repairs series.

[Owen Evans]

Jonathan, Phil, Bob,

Thanks for your responses. Here goes:

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Mine are made from some heavy tubing stock which had ID of 3/8 inch cut and welded to some 1/4 inch floor plate. Pins are just 3/8 inch bolts with the heads filed down. Simple and crude but they work just fine. They have the added bonus of if I want to drive with the doors off just drive out the pin. Cheers Phil

I'd forgotten I did something similar on the arctic top off my M38 Jeep. Only difference was I used a 1/4" clevis pin and R-clip in lieu of the bolt.

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

The Unique cab 11/12 hinges are NOT available anywhere that I know of and will need to be fabricated from 1/4 thick stock unless you can find some old ones. The Ford models available require too much rewelding of holes and redrilling to be worth the $$$ asked.

As a footnote, I checked with O'Neill's Vintage Ford in the UK, and their recommendation is not to use the repro Model A hinges (even on Model A's), due to very poor quality.

Found Bob's info (post 60 on):
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...t=12207&page=2

Post 163 onwards here is also of interest:
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...t=20363&page=6

I'll post some better pictures of my doors over the weekend, to gather opinion on them..

Thanks,
Owen.

[Bob Carriere]

I had fun re reading all the old postings and sad to see so many names have now moved on to higher and greener pasture.

If you have any questions on the doors, or cab 11/12..... you just need to ask!!!!!!

Bob C

[Owen Evans]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

sad to see so many names have now moved on to higher and greener pasture.

Bob C

Yes, a real pity.

Thoughts on the attached hinges? They are approx. 5mm taller than the originals, but may be an adaptable solution. They are from a Belgian supplier called 'Hinscha'. They quoted 47 euro delivered, for 4 hinges.

https://www.hinscha.com/en/products/...m-hardened-pin

At roughly 12 euros per hinge, I'm tempted...

Owen.

[Bob Carriere]

Do you have to buy 4 or can you get one to play with and see how it fits????/

do not forget to take pictures for posting on MLU.

Good luck

[Owen Evans]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Do you have to buy 4 or can you get one to play with and see how it fits?

One hinge is now on order. I did try them on for a free sample, but my powers of persuasion were lacking.

Here's the first offending article; the driver's door. At first glance, it is rather poor. But aside from a few pinholes, I believe the curved section of door frame could be re-used. Probably the lock upright section too. Think I got lucky there.

More to follow....

[Owen Evans]

Passenger door. This one is in reasonable condition; I think I may only need to replace the hinge upright and bottom section. Both doors will need reskinning, and although you can't see in the photos the folded return on the door frame (where the door skin wraps over) is poor and will need replacing.

[Owen Evans]

A sample of the hinges. The pitting is so deep on some hinges that they are less than 2mm thick in places. They have bent to such an extent that they have partially split. And I'm certain the hinge in the last photo isn't meant to be that shape.

I will post more info when the new hinge sample arrives...

Owen.

[Jonathan Moore]

Owen,

They look quite good and are definitely not beyond repair.

Jon

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Owen

Not in bad shape at all. You should be able to fix that quite well. The new skin will make a big difference in making the door nice and solid.

Curious to see how the new hinges will fit.

Bob C.

[Owen Evans]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Do you have to buy 4 or can you get one to play with and see how it fits????/

do not forget to take pictures for posting on MLU.

Good luck

The sample hinge arrived yesterday. I haven't yet got round to removing an old hinge from the door, so I used half of one of my broken hinges for comparison. Here goes:

Material thickness: the sample hinge is 5mm thick, as opposed to the originals being 1/8" (3.2mm). This would mean that the slots in both the door frame and back panel will need opening out slightly. The vendor does offer the hinges in 3mm, but I think the added strength of the extra 2mm outweighs any minor modification of the slots.

Hinge length: the sample hinge is 160mm (open). When compared to the developed length of the original hinge part in the photos, it would be necessary to trim approx. 5mm from the edge of the hinge. The 'door' hinge half is shorter, so more material will need to be cut off.

Hinge height: the sample hinge is 50mm tall. My original hinges are approx. 45mm tall. I suspect it will be easier to increase the height of the slots in the door and back panel, rather than cut 2.5mm off the top and bottom of each hinge.

Hinge alignment: as shown in the last two photos, the sample hinge aligns perfectly with the hinge in the original part.

Now the bad bit: the sample hinge has a 'mottled' texture, which makes me suspect that it may be either cast or forged. Not sure how this will stand up to putting the required bend in the 'back panel' half of the hinge. My metal folder won't handle this thickness, but a local fabricator I use should be able to help.

In summary I think this is a workable solution, but it all hinges (arrgh, sorry ) on whether the required bend can be put into the hinge. A purist may want to go with the 3mm hinges, but I believe that the thicker 5mm hinge goes some way to eliminating a weak point on the cab 11/12 doors.

I will post another update on how I get on with putting the required bend into the hinge.

If anybody needs any other photos or measurements, let me know...

Cheers,
Owen.

[Owen Evans]

Couldn't fit this picture on the previous post.....

[Alex van de Wetering]

Owen,

Excellent work! These hinges seem like a good alternative for a common problem on cab 11/12s! Please keep us updated.

Alex

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Owen

Better that it has extra material to work with..... easier to fit by removing material than trying to add to it.

Some heat in bending the hinges should make it easier. The final bend / adjustment will be done when the door is installed on the cab. You will find that the door can be moved right or left simply by inserting a wooden stick on the hinged side and forcing the door closed...... you will always have adjust to more or less center the door in the cab opening and to make sure that the door latch is catching on the front piece to keep the door closed. I made myself some sticks ranging from 12mm to about 16mm and inserted them until I had the proper closing. If you over stretch the hinge you cand hammer it back with a drift pin. Using the wooden shims you can adjust the door up and down by bending the top or bottom hinge as required. No fancy adjustment needed on a cab 11.

The extra thickness should be in your favour for strength....adjust for the thickness carefully with a hand file. Do you have access to the propershape screw replacement...... flat head tapered machine screws???

Keep us posted of your progress.

Bob C