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#1
27-09-04, 16:39
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19set and a Mk I
Hi
Could someone please direct me to or post pics of a #19 set mounted in a Mk II? We have a perfectly restored and complete radio with AMUs, Ants, Headsets, hand mikes, etc. We want to put ours in the back left but are unsure if this is proper. Thanx in advance. regards Darrell  editted to correct Mk # in title. Last edited by Darrell Zinck; 19-10-04 at 04:43. 
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#2
28-09-04, 08:32
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Re: 19set and a Mk II
Quote:
R.
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#3
28-09-04, 08:34
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Re: 19set and a Mk II
Image 2.
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#4
28-09-04, 14:18
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R.
Thank you very much. Seems to have worked fine. The pics printed out a little grainy but they're an asset to what we're looking at doing. Are they from a manual of some kind. If so, might I have it's name/# so I can perhaps try and find one of our own? regards Darrell
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#5
28-09-04, 16:21
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Mark Whom?
Darrell,
Good luck with the radio installation on your Carrier. Before you start cutting and welding please note that the diagrams referenced are for a MkI Carrier. The big fold down antennea on the drivers side give it away as one of the earlier variants. I wish that I had access to my pix at home where Gord Falk was nice enough to send me some scans of his MkII Carrier with 19 set installed. The MkII installation puts the radio gear directly behind the driver on that fold down seat South of the division plate. As there is a shortage of room when the radio sits transversly, the power supply and variometer sit on top of the big box with all of the knobs and switches ( sorry to use that shop talk ). I have never seen a wartime picture of a MkII Carrier thus equipped. The stowage diagrams that I have for MkII all have the canvas cover over all of the good bits - I bet that made the depictions easier to draw. I will get those pix from Manitoba as soon as I can ferret them out of the archives. Stewart
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#6
28-09-04, 20:33
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Hello Stewart
Thanx for the good wishes. We hope to have a nice one sometime down the road.Yes I see that there is a difference in the pics and what we have. Also I had thought the radio would go on the left side as the fuel tank in our MkII is on the right. Guess I was wrong. I also see that the set we have only one "aerial base" and it's not of the folding type (No.8, I guess). I'm supposing that we'll mount that at the rear as there is MG (?) mounting cup on the forward right hull side. If you could provide me with any additional info; that would be great. Of course any timeline that is good for you is good for us. Luckily we aren't anywhere near being ready to install the radio yet. I'm looking forward to hearing back from you. You assistance is very much appreciated and if you're ever in Petawawa, give me a shout and I'll give you the nickel tour. best regards Darrell
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#7
28-09-04, 21:00
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Re: Mark Whom?
Quote:
R.
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#8
28-09-04, 21:34
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R.
Ack. It would seem that I'm going to have a bit of leeway in how we install this set. Also our #19 set has a cage of sorts around it and came out of a Jeep of some sort. I'll try to post some pics here to elicit some opinions from this knowledgable membership. Thanx. regards A
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#9
29-09-04, 02:23
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MkII Stowage Pix
Have a look at this stowage diagram. I cannot recall from where it was taken.
I am still looking for the pix of the Falk Carrier with radio. Stewart I shall take you up on the offer of a tour the next time that I get up to Pet. There must be snow on the ground there by now? 
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#10
29-09-04, 03:36
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19 sets in Mk.1 vs Mk.II
Hi Darrell, I agree with Stew, be carefull of the difference between Mk.I and Mk.II carriers. The pictures posted above are from the UC-F1 manual and the Wireless Installation Instructions. I can send relevant copies of both if you want. On Mk.II carriers, the W/T 19 set was mounted along the division plate immediately behind the driver (I have pics if you need them). As well, the aerial mounts are completely different.
Attached is a picture of a 19 Mk.II in my Mk.I carrier to compare with the scan from the manual above. P.S. See the post from a week or so ago regarding Humber Mk.IV's for some of my Fox 'progress photo's'. We should chat as I've selected a regimetal name for the old girl I'd like official sanction to use.
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#11
29-09-04, 16:43
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Stewart
I ack your email and hope to see you today. Thanx for the additional stowage diagram. At the very least I can add it to our slowly accumulating Carrier database!!  Bruce Ahhhhh, I see now that I'll have to determine which Mk of #19 set I have. The nice pic you posted is very helpful and shows my radio differs somewhat from yours. Is yours in working order and do you consider it to be an accurate representation of the mounting and associated parts? I'm hope that doesn't sound rude 'cause it's not meant to; I just need to start to be as sure as I can before I spend Regimental Guild monies aquiring or modifying our basic carrier.  As for your beautiful Fox, I seem to recall former RSM Gosse giving you that permission. Suprisingly, we, the RCD have little in the way of photos of our time in Fox's. There is a large amount of written documenta that gives veh names by Sqn over different time periods but that's going to require some digging. Our Regt'l Archives staff are very co-operative so any searching can be accomodated with good notice. If you can't make it up to search yourself, just email me ( find address in the Sale/Trade category of this forum) the details and I'll see what I can do. Thanks to all for your help. regards Darrell
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#12
29-09-04, 22:01
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The #19set we have:
regards Darrell
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#13
29-09-04, 22:02
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The rest of it:
There are two complete headsets and neck mikes in the Sig Satchel too. regards Darrell
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#14
30-09-04, 03:06
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Hi Darrell,
I mounted my 19 set in my Mark ll carrier in the position shown in the Stowage Diagram for the No.2, Mk ll, wich as described earlier being behind the division plate directly behind the driver. There is photo of this mounting in Bill Greg's Profile book as well as a drawing. You will notice on your carrier a bracked near the division plate up against the armour side wall and also on the fold down seat which was used to clamp down the 19 set. If you require a copy of the stowage diagram please contact me via the forum message board. Gord Falk
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#15
30-09-04, 05:39
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Darrell, here's where it gets confusing.
Radio-wise, your 19 set is a Mk.III on a Carrier, No.1 (carrier meaning the metal rails the set is sitting on, not the vehicle). It is the version built in Canada from 1944 onwards. It's primary diffrence from earlier models is that it's supply unit has both a dynamotor and a vibrator. Both it and the earlier Mk.II 19 sets are interchangable and either could be mounted in your vehicle. Canada only ever produced Mk.II and Mk.III 19 sets, America (lend-lease)only Mk.II's and British Mk.I, Mk.II and Mk.III's. Australia built them too, but somone else can identify what marks.
Vehicle wise, what I've mounted in my Mk.1* carrier is the correct installation as per the manual on the right side over the track (where the earlier 11 set was intended to go). This was not done in Mk.II* carriers. They had the set mounted, as Gord says, along the divsion plate looking rearward immediately behind the driver. I can post a picture if Gord doesn't beat me to it. What you'll have to do is get a wireless metal carrier No.2 (which is like yours, only just long enough for the wireless sender/receiver and not the sender/receiver and supply unit beside each other as in your picture) and moiunt the supply unit on it's side on top of the sender/receiver. The holes are already there as the sets were built to allow for several installation configurations. As to the Fox naming, yes, I gratefully received permission, but nothing in writing which would be nice and 'official'. You sent me regimental names and I have one that seems to fit the charater of the beast (C Squadron 'CHASM'). Are you suggesting in your post above that there may be a chance to find names actually used on RCD Fox in WW2 in the regimental archives? If so, that would be a fantastic!!
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#16
30-09-04, 10:39
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Re: Darrell, here's where it gets confusing.
Quote:
To précis a small part what is a huge reference work on the 19 set alone; The DoND authorised production in the summer of 1941 and four Canadian engineers from Northern Electric were sent to England for design transfer. The design was later shared with the Canadian Marconi Co. and RCA Victor; they were tasked to produce 250 sets each through 1942 and the production peaked at 1000/mth in summer '42. Early '42 the US Sigs Corps became interested and had an exact copy of the Canadian set produced to fill lend-lease orders; there is no evidence of US MkIII ever being made. We must presume these were MkII sets since in the late summer of '42 British MkIII sets were supplied resulting in a Canadian prototype MkIII Oct '42; the previously mentioned suppliers made the change-over in May '43 but Northern Electric continued with the MkII for 2 months more to clear up orders. There are minor detail circuit changes between the British and Canadian sets and large component differences since local sourcing was used, I suspect to be be sure of the origin you'd need to compare internally side by side and knowing the typical electronic component makers it would be obvious. eg. Canadian/Australian sets will not have Hunts capacitors, but beware some UK components were sourced in the US; moreover Pye here would be a cottage industry compared to the Canadian factories so the chances of finding a UK set are probably quite slim. Uniquely, the Canadains made a 24V supply for the 19 set too. The Australian 19 set stemmed from the 1941 intention to raise an armoured division using locally produced vehicles, the armour initially supplied from the UK and US came with the 19 set MkII already fitted and the development of the 19 MkII (Aust) continued from there with the Australian AWA Pty. The first run was done in Feb '43 and a second in May '44. There are no references to any Australian MkIII production and even so the Aust version of the MkII is very noticeably different from all the others. This version has a different number of valves and of different types, some switches are replaced with rotary types and the front panel is considerably changed, however, the set is mechanically and electrically interchangeable as a radio. The Aust. version was also far better environmentally protected, probably since the climate there demands all compnents, even for domestic use, to be rather different from the UK/Can/US types and so this set was very successful in the tropical environment whereas the other manufacture suffered alarming breakdown rates in the tropics. Owing to the initial design of the radio and subsequent widespread use, it was not possible during the war to redesign the whole thing into a sealed case. There are no production figures available for Aust. production, however, known existing serials indicate over 600 were made. There is a further complication, Australia re-worked a large number of 19 sets for Korean war use and these were re-designated MkII (Aust)/2. Generally these are found to be dated "R1952" and usually British MkII units. R.
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#17
30-09-04, 16:15
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Re: Darrell, here's where it gets confusing.
Quote:
Gord and R. It would appear that we have what we need but in (as you say) a different config. It's unlikely we'll be able to purchase the things we need but perhaps someone wants to talk trade. I have Ferret, M113 C&RV, Leo 1, parts galore as well as extras for the carrier like motor, tranny, engine covers and driver comp stuff. Also that Willys has to go too but she's a special case. Our carrier has very little in the way of interior fittings but lots of empty holes so stowage diagrams are a bonus. Thank again. regards Darrell
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#18
01-10-04, 03:30
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Mk.II* Stowage
Darrell, here is the stowage for a Mk.II* Carrier showing the 19 set installation. (this is always confusing as what's pictured here is what most people call a "Mk.II". It is actually a Mk.II*. A true Mk.II is really a mortar carrier and resembles a Mk.I* with all the mounting holes filled in with rivets and stowage for the 3" mortar and bombs).
I can help out with some of the parts you are missing if this is the installation you want to do. Yes, finding original WW2 RCD Fox names would be magnificent. I can't imagine I'll get to Pet before next summer so if you found time over the winter to research them I'd be most grateful.
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#19
01-10-04, 13:45
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Bruce
OK something is screwy here and I am beginning to think it's me!!! Do all Mk II's have only the steel tubing around the edges?? Mine has wooden slats!!  But the plaque and stencilling say it's a Mk II !!?? Do I have a different MK?? Darrell
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#20
01-10-04, 14:49
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The Mk 2 Carrier had a rolled steel pipe fitted around the side and rear armour plates. The Mk 1 carrier had either rubber or wood pieces placed either side of the bren gun mounts.
My question is the armour on your vehicle riveted on, if it is bolted on you may have had a change in upper armour which is why your armour does not match you id plates. By the way I send you a private message on making some trades. Gord
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#21
01-10-04, 15:49
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Gord
I ack your PM and have replied. The ID plates are gone and the Mk II info comes from the plaques on the side and a stencil ID (obviously non-official) on the bow. So tell me, is this a Mk II? regards Darrell  :
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#22
01-10-04, 15:58
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Nope.
Darrell,
Your machine is a MkI. The 4 bolt holes on the right side armour plate, up high, near the back - are for the folding antenna base. The 4 bolts holes closer to the front, at an angle, are for the smoke grenade launcher that was afixed to the outside of the early vehicles. That brass cup on the outside is for the Bren anti-aircraft pole that was used early on, also. I sort of thought this was mentioned in your early posts - but did not think much of it. Stewart
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#23
01-10-04, 16:33
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Welkl now at least now I know.
My apologies to you all and leading you astray like that. Your posts and contributions are still appreciated but now I must sort out the differences in Marks. I'm guessing this info changes a few things!! regards Darrell
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#24
01-10-04, 17:48
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Further Complications
A straight "Mk.II" is basically a modified "Mk.I*", as opposed to Stewart's "Mk.II*". This is what you appear to have. I think Bruce Parker can elucidate further on this distinction, if we can wake him up, Nigel too...
__________________
SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support
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#25
01-10-04, 19:34
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Re: Darrell, here's where it gets confusing.
Quote:
If I understand the posts correctly your installation is the same as the Mk.1 UC, so if the diagrams are of any help send me a PM with a direct address and I'll scan them at whatever huge resolution you would like to handle! R.
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#26
01-10-04, 21:30
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RCD Carrier
Hi All:
I spent a pleasant 1/2 hour with Darrell today and can confirm from visual inspection that his carrier is a Mk I. We managed to find the CT # and serial number on the top edge of the front plate (sorry, I didn't write them down but Darrell can report them later for addition to various data bases). It is very complete and the road-wheel rubber is reasonable. His tracks look good and the sprockets aren't bad. It will be a beauty when it is finished. He will need help with original or repro antennae mounts and is also looking for sand shields (originals would be nice but he is prepared to make copies if anyone can lend him originals). The front fenders are remakes and are in very good shape. Good luck to you and your crew, Darrell. As promised I'll provide what help I can. Cheers, Mike
__________________
Mike Calnan Ubique! ("Everywhere", the sole Battle Honour of the Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery) www.calnan.com/swords
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#27
02-10-04, 00:51
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So let me get this straight...
We are trying to determine if Darrell's carrier is a Mk.I, a Mk.II or a Mk.II*
We are determining if his 19 set is a Mk.II or a Mk.III ...and... ...whether a Wireless Carrier No.1 or a Wireless Carrier No.2 would be the correct installation of what may be a Mk.II or Mk.III 19 set in his Mk.I, Mk.II or Mk.II* Carrier? (so what's so bad about the American way of calling everything M-This or M-That?) To confirm, Darrell's 19 set is a Mk.III Canadian one. The Carrier appears to be a Mk.1*, but I'd want to check the holes in the armour Stew identified. If they are open or filled with nuts and bolts (i.e. there was originally something mounted there), it's a Mk.1*. If the holes have been factory filled with rivets, it is a Mk.II (not Mk.II*) that was originally a mortar carrier. Now, will it sport a Mk.I, Mk.IM or Mk.II Bren gun?
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#28
04-10-04, 13:59
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My oh my, the ruckus I've caused.
Thanx for coming out Mike, your advice and info was most helpful. Right after you left, Jim Rolfe showed up and we had another nice visit and talk. He showed me pics of the work he's done on his Willys (very ), added some info on ours (still for trade!!), and also relayed his UC engine experiences. This was all most helpful and we thank him too.My radio is definately a Mk III as that's what is on the tags, the carrier is a Mk I according the #'s and I'll post the exact ser# that Mike pointed out, a little later today. The smoke bomb thrower mount holes on the right are bolt-filled as are the folding antenna mount holes at the right rear side. I'm off to look in here (on Mikes suggestion) for our own folding antenna. Also in regard to the Bren Question, guess I need another mount, x2 poles and of course the Brens. It also looks as if there wasa box of some sort mounted on the rear vertical plate but now is just a rectangle of holes. Later Darrell
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#29
04-10-04, 16:32
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Re: So let me get this straight...
Quote:
R.
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#30
04-10-04, 21:49
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Hi
The # on the top of the Driver's armour plate is CT 112851. If this means something signifigant to someone, please let me know. regards Darrell
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