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  #1  
Old 01-02-18, 09:28
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default New C15?? Restoration Project

Hello all,
Background info - My pop passed away last 2 years ago at the ripe old age of 96, and he was a veteran of WW2 at Milne Bay in the 2/5 Field Coy. I remember all the long stories he told me about his time during the war and really enjoyed listening to him and I can assure you he enjoyed telling them. I remember him telling me about the vehicles that he drove and one in particular - the Blitz Wagon. Years prior, I took him to Canberra to the Australian War Memorial and walked around for hours, he could talk about almost everything that was there and especially remember looking at the Ford and Chev Blitz wagons that were on display.

After he passed, some money was allocated to all his grand children and I really wanted to do something to remember him but also something that I do enjoy.

So, having seen Blitzes on some trading sites for sale I really wanted to restore one but also with the intention of being a daily driver - yes, a daily driver.

Here is the vehicle the night that I picked it up:
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  #2  
Old 01-02-18, 09:45
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Initial pictures of parts

Starting to identify all the parts of my new project.
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20170730_103544sml.jpg   20170730_103559sml.jpg   20170730_103630sml.jpg   20170730_103645sml.jpg  
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  #3  
Old 01-02-18, 09:56
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Identification Help

I will post my process so far but I do need some help in deciphering the chassis number (I did not get any data plates with this).

I am certain the chassis number is 2124577731 (refer to image) and I found this at the front passenger side rail and was stamped into the steel.

From my research so far I thought it was of a 45 vintage, however, another place has described the first digit as the year of manufacture being 42.

The next 4 numbers do not make too much sense and the last 5 I believe is the production line number. Can I please ask for any help in shedding some light on this. Thanks
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  #4  
Old 01-02-18, 10:33
Keith Webb's Avatar
Keith Webb Keith Webb is offline
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Default Chassis number

That certainly does not look like a correct chassis number. If it is a C15A it will be something like this: 2844400396 where the first 2 is the production year, 8444 is the chassis type then the rest is the sequential number. It is then followed by a suffix letter denoting the assembly plant - for example M = Melbourne.

It is normally stamped on the vertical face of the left front chassis rail.

Possibly your number is an ID put on by a previous authority who owned it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbarkley View Post
I will post my process so far but I do need some help in deciphering the chassis number (I did not get any data plates with this).

I am certain the chassis number is 2124577731 (refer to image) and I found this at the front passenger side rail and was stamped into the steel.

From my research so far I thought it was of a 45 vintage, however, another place has described the first digit as the year of manufacture being 42.

The next 4 numbers do not make too much sense and the last 5 I believe is the production line number. Can I please ask for any help in shedding some light on this. Thanks
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42 FGT No8 (Aust) remains
42 FGT No9 (Aust)
42 F15
Keith Webb
Macleod, Victoria Australia
Also Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles group on Facebook
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  #5  
Old 01-02-18, 10:40
Keith Webb's Avatar
Keith Webb Keith Webb is offline
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Default Number location

Arrow indicates where your chassis number should be. Interesting to see it appears to have the side plates for a winch - if it also has a 2 speed transfer case it is possibly a CGT chassis in which case you're looking for a 28440 chassis number. Hope this helps.
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42 FGT No8 (Aust) remains
42 FGT No9 (Aust)
42 F15
Keith Webb
Macleod, Victoria Australia
Also Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles group on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadianmilitarypattern
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  #6  
Old 01-02-18, 13:13
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Info

Thanks for the reply and information Keith, I will have a closer look at that section of the chassis.
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  #7  
Old 01-02-18, 15:56
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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Default

I don't know whether this applies to Australia, but I have had the experience of the Ministry of Transportation in Ontario assign a (17 digit, meets current pattern) VIN to an ex-military Sankey trailer as a replacement for the original number that was on the data plate when I bought it from Crown Assets.
Perhaps there wasn't an original data plate for your C15 and "the system" assigned a number? This is only a suggestion, no idea how likely it is to be correct.
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  #8  
Old 02-02-18, 02:10
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Chassis Serial

Checked the chassis and there are no markings at all, I am just guessing that they were removed at some point. I am now using the engine number to hopefully locate the correct chassis number. Checked a few linked sites from here and the numbers are very close/fit in to a a 1942 Field Artillery Tractor 4x4 Cab 13 101" (C.GT Gun Tractor). I do have a wooden steering wheel and the sunshine roof. I am aware that they can be easily changed. Thank you also Grant.
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  #9  
Old 02-02-18, 05:03
Keith Webb's Avatar
Keith Webb Keith Webb is offline
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Default No number

You can also look a little further back, I have seen them stamped almost under the cab.

The Australian No8 CGT had an integral steel body with a normal front roof hatch.

I see yours has 16" rather than 20" wheels, if it has the higher ratio diffs then it was not a CGT.

But anything can happen in a restoration/rebuild!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbarkley View Post
Checked the chassis and there are no markings at all, I am just guessing that they were removed at some point. I am now using the engine number to hopefully locate the correct chassis number. Checked a few linked sites from here and the numbers are very close/fit in to a a 1942 Field Artillery Tractor 4x4 Cab 13 101" (C.GT Gun Tractor). I do have a wooden steering wheel and the sunshine roof. I am aware that they can be easily changed. Thank you also Grant.
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42 FGT No8 (Aust) remains
42 FGT No9 (Aust)
42 F15
Keith Webb
Macleod, Victoria Australia
Also Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles group on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadianmilitarypattern
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  #10  
Old 03-02-18, 08:47
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Chassis Details

Have had a good look on both sides and further back under the cab, just nothing visible. May find something under a bit of old paint maybe but will continue looking. Can I ask what the large stamped letter almost on its own signifies? Its a large S just in front of the bump stop bracket.
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Last edited by nbarkley; 03-02-18 at 09:04.
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  #11  
Old 03-02-18, 09:11
Keith Webb's Avatar
Keith Webb Keith Webb is offline
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Default S

Normally that is at the end of the chassis number, S means Sydney assembled, so perhaps the chassis number in front of that has been obliterated...
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Film maker

42 FGT No8 (Aust) remains
42 FGT No9 (Aust)
42 F15
Keith Webb
Macleod, Victoria Australia
Also Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles group on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadianmilitarypattern
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  #12  
Old 03-02-18, 09:49
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hrpearce hrpearce is offline
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Default

My chassis no. and another on a chev chassis.
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  #13  
Old 03-02-18, 13:31
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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Default

I realise that you are discussing a mystery on a frame found in Australia and am only speaking based on my Canadian experience. Typically, Canadian Chevrolet CMP chassis are not stamped with a serial number (some could have been but I haven't seen any, nor have I seen documents to say they should be stamped) but the "S" stamp can be present. This makes me think the number on the top of the rail and the "S" on the side of the rail are not related. The "S" in the middle of the serial is not something I have seen on Canadian trucks, which fits the suggestion of this version signifying Sydney assembly. There has been past discussion that the "S" on the side of the frame rail near the spring hanger might be an inspector's acceptance mark (possibly signifying "satisfactory?).
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  #14  
Old 03-02-18, 22:04
Ganmain Tony's Avatar
Ganmain Tony Ganmain Tony is offline
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Default Very interesting

The bits that have come with the vehicle appear to include a gun tractor fuel tank.
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  #15  
Old 03-02-18, 22:41
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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Default Narrow Backed seats

In the parts image, the seats are the standard narrow back type, not the Australian wide back type which entered production in early 1944. So IF these are the original seats, the truck is not a 1945 period vehicle produced in Australia by GMH.

Robert's images of the chassis numbers are your best guide, along with Keith's comments. If you cannot find the remains of something like that, then the suggestion that the number stamped into the chassis is a later, police/registration dept requirement because a chassis number could not be found becomes the most likely scenario.

Mike
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  #16  
Old 04-02-18, 01:27
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Mike Kelly Mike Kelly is offline
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Default History

Maybe you could ask the previous owner if they know anything of the vehicles history. Ancestry.com for CMP's , that would be useful project ! A long shot but you can ask the QLD registration dept. to do a search in their computer system for that chassis number.
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  #17  
Old 04-02-18, 11:43
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Chassis Number

Thanks all for the info so far. Spent a few hours looking at the chassis yesterday and came across a very worn number under the cab. I could see a 3 then 8 then nothing until maybe a 2 at the end. My folks live in Canberra and are retired so have asked them to do a bit of research for me at the Australian War Memorial.
Have done a PPSR check and unfortunately returned nothing. The previous owner mentioned he had bought the vehicle up from Victoria 10 or so years ago.
Mike in regards to the seats, thanks for identifying them. They looked so rusty and not worth saving but had the folks up at Christmas and Dad got stuck into restoring them and have come up really well. Was going to replace the springs but as they are not visible may look at new methods.
So with the info on the seats I also have the following:
- wooden steering wheel (1943 production onwards)
- engine number seems to be similar to others in 1943 and very close to two CGTs built
- Sunshine cab ?? Later in the war years so 42/43 onwards and an Aussie design
- possible chassis markings starting with a 3

Last edited by nbarkley; 04-02-18 at 12:06.
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  #18  
Old 04-02-18, 12:18
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Transport Dept and Registration

Can I ask if anyone else has been through similar in registering a blitz that has possibly only war history, no current / recent rego papers. What were the sort of issues you encountered, had to produce to get registration? I have noticed a bloke in Hervey Bay who has a blitz currently registered as commercial vehicle and thought I would ask here first before talking to a local club.
I called QLD Transport and they want to see any history, how was it brought into Aus and registered or import papers.
Engineer has no issues with what I am doing as most don't need to comply with ADR rules (1972 onwards). He did say it's the oldest vehicle he will engineer, not to sure if that's a good or bad thing.
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  #19  
Old 04-02-18, 17:23
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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Default

Until you locate the chassis number, or most of it, there is probably not a lot of point in sending people to the AWM, and even then, the Army registration (ARN) books are viewable on line, as are many images from the AWM image collection. You can browse these from your desk at home.

There is another thread on this forum about the ARN books.

Long time since I did a rego in Oz, so I can't help you there.

Mike
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  #20  
Old 12-02-18, 09:58
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default AWM Research Centre

Thanks for the info Mike, I have found where they exist and have spent the last 2 weeks looking through each book page by page and line by line. Unfortunately I have not found the engine number and as I don't have the full original chassis number it is getting a little harder. I did find that one of the AWM volumes was incomplete and only can download 50 pages of a 300 page document. The AWM is currently looking into this and I am crossing my fingers it may show something.
The numbers are so close but it was quite exciting searching through. The AIF had quite a few BSA, Harley Davidson, Indian and even noticed quite a few Scooters on the list. These must have been for the good fuel economy and quick get away.
Will keep searching and hopefully find something.
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  #21  
Old 16-07-18, 12:04
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Images of my restoration

Bringing home the project and the parts included.
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20170729_183955.jpg   20170729_184004.jpg   20170730_085735.jpg   20170730_103544.jpg   20170730_103546.jpg  

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  #22  
Old 16-07-18, 12:05
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Images of my restoration

More parts acquired
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  #23  
Old 16-07-18, 12:06
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Images of my restoration

More parts acquired.
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  #24  
Old 16-07-18, 12:08
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Images of my restoration

Further parts collected
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  #25  
Old 16-07-18, 12:09
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Images of my restoration

Frame sitting beside driveway and closeups of dash
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  #26  
Old 16-07-18, 12:35
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Images of my restoration

The cab, painted in caterpillar yellow.
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  #27  
Old 16-07-18, 12:37
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Images of my restoration

Rebuilding the brake cylinders
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  #28  
Old 16-07-18, 12:39
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Images of my restoration

Pulling apart one corner at a time
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  #29  
Old 16-07-18, 12:41
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Images of my restoration

Pulling apart another corner
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  #30  
Old 16-07-18, 12:45
nbarkley nbarkley is offline
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Default Images of my restoration

Cleaning the frame then mocking up the engine
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