Wanted: Full wood Stock for 1918 Lee Enfield

[Casey B]

Looking for a decent stock for a Lee Enfiled 1918 year. I am not sure if the stocks changed that much from war to war or to the now used Enfields by the Rangers?
Mine was sportized so i can use the Butt plate and some of the hardware to mount it but need the full wood and the hardware for the bayonette mount.

I know they are around but getting harder to find and would like to put the old mans rifle back to how it was.
Email me? thanks Casey

[Ed Storey]

The Canadian Rangers use No. 4 Mk I* Lee Enfields were as the Great War rifles were No. 1 Mk IIIs. The woodwork and fittings on these are different.

Here are a couple of images of WWI Lee Enfields.

[Casey B]

So I am looking for the prevebial needle in the huge haystack then. i did find a full stock on Ebay Australia but not sure it would fit. I see it won't. I'll check the Mk no.s on mine again to see but the date is 1918. Thanks for the photos. It had to be different didn't it? here's what mine looks like as it is now and the way my father got it in the 50's for hunting. I am not sure if the original stock was changed out or altered as I can't see the break/joint where the rear buttstock would attach...Any thoughts would be appreciated...?
Thank you

[Lang]

Might Help with SMLE. Looking at your photos you seem to have a US rifle not a British built Enfield. The US built over 1,000,000 of these during WW1 for the British. It was based on the SMLE and was .303. The Americans then made relatively minor alterations to the bolt, chamber etc to take their .30 ammunition and produced these for their own army. The manufacturers marks on the rifle should be easy to trace



Lang

[motto]

That aint no SMLE ! Looks like a Pattern 14 to me. These were adopted by the British in 1914 to supplement the standard service rifle (SMLE)when war broke out. They were made by three companies, Enfield in the UK and Winchester and Remington (at Eddystone and Ilion ) in the US. Later in the war the Americans modified the design to 30.06 calibre and produced it as the M17.
Some information is available on Google.

David

[Ed Storey]

For sure, it is not a Lee Enfield.

[Lang]

This is your rifle (the picture is actually the modified .30 American Army P17 rifle but can not be distinguished in a photo from the .303). British Rifle M1914 or P14. You should be able to get front woodwork easily in North America. The manufacturers in order of volume were Eddystone, Remington and Winchester.

[cletrac (RIP)]

If it's a 303 it's a P14.
It it's a 30-06 it's a P17.

[Lang]

David,

It is a P14. The photos of the markings have .303 stamped on the chamber.

Lang

[Lang]

Just noticed a reference in "The Book of Rifles" Smith.

In 1939/40 the Americans shipped an astonishing 1,000,000 of these rifles "on hand" in bulk to UK. Because Smith deals with both rifles in the same section of the book I can't work out if they were 30-06 or .303. Why would the Americans have 1,000,000 .303 on hand, indicating production through the 20's?

I can understand them having the M1917/P17 Enfield on hand as they had standardised on the Springfield for their army and had the WW1 P17 leftovers but if they were 30-06 there is little mention in any history I have seen of the British using that calibre rifle in vast numbers.

Lang

[Lynn Eades]

Yep, P14. They were un popular because of the bolt shape. They were heavy, but made good snipers rifles.
I would query the date. It should be WWII era.

[Lang]

Lynn,

The stated date above is 1918 but the markings on the chamber indicate 1916. ('16)

No .303 of this type were made in the WW2 era but it appears millions of old stock were used.

This will tell you who made it (once again for P17 but P14 the same)

http://m1903.com/m1917markings.htm

Lang

[Ed Storey]

As has been stated, the US manufactured the .303 P14 for the British during the Great War. They were used again during the Second World War and in the case of Canada, mostly for training by the Army. The .3006 P17 was also used by Canada during the Second World War and it is possible to see them being employed by the RCN and RCAF.

Your cut-down P14 is a nice rifle that deserves to be restored back to its original configuration.

[David Dunlop]

Check with IMA in the US. They might have the full wood set and hardware you are looking for and they will be able to ship into Canada for you.

Here in Canada, SIR used to have full wood sets for these British and American rifles, but I am not sure what would be available since they merged with Cabelas. Wouldn't cost anything to ask them at any rate.


David

[Lynn Eades]

Lang, Ed, thanks for the revision. I did know it once, but the info was lost somewhere in my head I was not putting it together, "model OF 1914", model Of 1917 etc.
I actually owned a P14 for some years. It had been cut down to a 13 inch barrel. The result of my dad's friend having the muzzle in the water when trout fishing. The 13" barrel was all that was left after the pitch fork bit was cut away.

[Casey B]

Thanks for all the information and yes I see that it is not a Lee Enfield as I was told and after handling a few Enfields today.I saw the difference. So we all think it is a P14..Okay. I am slightly confused as to whether it is a modified Enfield or Springfield? there was a lot of onformation.
I just want to know what to ask for when locating the stock parts...that's all.

Yes he "Dad" took good care if it and it was purchased here in vancouver either at the three Vets or Army and navy when they actually sold surplus!
Thank you for the kind words and I would like to restore it to it's youth!

He didn't do the modifications but I fear that the way the front of the stock was cut and shaped that the front lower piece of wood may not be able to fit?

The dates... I was not sure of either as I see the date in the red box as 18-5 so May 1918 or is it the circled '16 and then 18 as the day and may as the month? there are several crowns as well tow in the picture another on the side of the chamber both have the BNP with a crown over it as well the Broad arrow.

I will try to find some more info on it. If anyone needs better pics to help fill in the gaps please don't hesitate to ask.


PS this link that was sent in a post... ( http://m1903.com/m1917markings.htm) did not seem to work for me...is it correct? thanks Casey

[rob love]

I only know of one source for P14/P17 wood at reasonable prices. The company has most of the hardware as well. Shoot me a PM Casey if you still need some, and I'll forward you the details.

I do not believe you will find any on this side of the border however. I usually bring 4 sets to the Calgary show each year and they are long gone before the public ever gets in to the show.

[Casey B]

thanks Rob sent you a PM...! Casey

[maple_leaf_eh]

I'm going to burst your bubble. The wood for P14/M17 rifles is quite hard to get. There are some surplus sellers, but all military surplus rifle types are enjoying a happy renaissance lately. Guys are doing exactly what the original poster is trying to do. All cheap or unbroken parts have been bought up lately, and many of those parts now trade on a secondary market for guys looking to match up makes and conditions.

Do a search on the American gun parts market for what they call Enfields. If the ad is for an SMLE, a No.1 or a No.4, keep looking. I don't know where to suggest here in Canada. The shops that had any quantities of P14/M17 rifles or parts went out of business 3 decades ago.

[Lang]

Casey,

I will put up another way to get to that web site. It tells you where to find the mark on every part to see who made them. Try this http://m1903.com/m1917markings.htm

The rifle is built on a British Enfield pattern and has no connection to the US Springfield. When the Americans entered the war the big gun companies were churning out the .303 P14 Enfield pattern for the British. The British had decided on this new rifle (with new rimless ammunition) to replace the SMLE but the events of 1914 and the failure of Vickers, the main contractor, to produce the required number led to continued SMLE production in UK and reversion of the P14 to .303 and the American contracts.

A big US 1917 investigation made it clear those companies making the British P14 could not convert to producing the standard US Springfield rifle in a short time. The decision was made to just modify the .303 to the standard US 30-06 calibre which could be done quickly because all the main components were already pouring down the production line for the British. So was born the P17 which pumped out until the end of the war and was issued alongside the Springfields to US forces.

Eddystone (a subsidiary of Remington until sold) produced 1,200,000 while Remington and Winchester produced about half a million each. It would appear the million rifles sent to the British 1939/40 were of this stock and 30-06 calibre. From what I have found they armed the Home Guard and often had a red band around the fore stock to indicate .30 calibre because they could easily be confused with the almost identical appearing .303 P14 which was still in use at the same time.

After WW1 the P17 was withdrawn and the US standardised on the Springfield which a large portion of the US forces were still using at the end of WW2.

Lang

PS. The date of your rifle is 1916 - '16. The other number is the proof load and it says "BNP (Barrel Nominal Pressure) 18.5 tons per square inch".

[Casey B]

Thank you the site link worked well. I will check it all. It looks so far like it was the first choice with the E's!
Looking for the parts I'll need but it's a long weekend here so Tuesday Emails are in so wait a little longer. thanks for your help and yours as well Rob!
Casey

[motto]

The BNP with crown above stands for Birmingham Nitro Proof which indicates that the rifle has been tested in an official Proof House.
Lang, I believe the huge numbers of 'Enfields' sent to Britain from the US at the outbreak of WW2 were in fact M17 and they were issued to or intended for the Home Guard. Better than broomsticks eh? No doubt ammunition was also supplied. The British didn't set up to produce 30.06.

I don't have documentation at hand for the above but I think it will be found to be correct.

David

[Lang]

Thanks Dave. The Barrel Nominal Pressure meaning for BNP came from a gun nut forum I found today - obviously your definition takes precedence. I put the home guard thing in my previous post. They may not have been so hard done by as the P14/P17 was a technically superior rifle and reportedly more accurate than the SMLE, if a bit heavier. After all it was the weapon designed and actually chosen to replace the SMLE.

Lang

[Lang]

Here they are:

Here are more including the red band indication .30 calibre. With a big 30-06 stamp in the wood.

[Ewen B]

Here is one source in Manitoba you may check for parts..

Greg Steele bought up a pile of parts and old rifles, and may have what you want. He is located in Brandon, Manitoba. his phone number is 204-725-1608. If he is not there, leave a voice mail. He has his hands into a number of things and it may take a while for him to get back to you. Ewen