Rear axle seals

[Maurice Donckers]

Does anybody know how the outher seals ,the ones near the half shaft should be mounted ?
I took several axles apart , on carriers and CMP`s , but on one the lip faces inward to keep the bearing grease there , on others it faces outward . There is no clear answer in the manuals that I have got .

[Richard Farrant]

Hi Maurice,
In theory the seal should stop the oil getting through to the grease, so lip towards the oil.

[Maurice Donckers]

but there should be no oil there , because there are seals next to the diff.

[roy206]

hey Maurice

ik kijk het even na in de manuals die ik heb,mail me ff

roy

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Maurice Donckers

but there should be no oil there , because there are seals next to the diff.

Ah, forgot about that............ I was thinking of another axle (not Carrier).

Those inner ones often get damaged when removing /inserting half shafts, wonder if it is what we call a "belt and braces" method, if one leaks there is another one!

[Lynn Eades]

How about some pictures Maurice? Which type of seal do you mean

[Maurice Donckers]

yep that is the one I mean , this is again mounted to keep the grease inside .Is this now the corect way?

[Lynn Eades]

Hi Maurice, it sits as it was, when i pulled it apart.
There is another type of seal, which is steel and cast iron, or steel and steel.
It would be nice if you could post a picture of the new seal.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Maurice Donckers

yep that is the one I mean , this is again mounted to keep the grease inside .Is this now the corect way?

Hi Maurice,
The seal Lynn showed is as on the Ford axle used in a Carrier and there are no inboard seals on the halfshafts, so this seal on the hub nut lockplate is to stop the oil getting in to the grease and diluting it. The British Fords had a mechanical seal, as Lynn described, a sprung steel ring around the plate.

regards Richard

[Maurice Donckers]

I have no new seal , these seals come out of several of my CMP axles , some facing inwards , and some facing outwards, but I can`t find wich way round they should go , the seal in the picture is facing inwards to keep the grease in , and not to stop the oil going to the bearing

[Lynn Eades]

Maurice, unless you're going to park on steep sidings, I don't think your ever going to have a problem with them mixing. The level in the diff is lower than the axle tubes, and your probably packing your wheel bearings with high melting point grease that isn't going anywhere away from the bearings. The seals in reasonable condition will be enough of a physical barrier, which ever way you fit them. I myself, would however fit them to keep the oil out of the bearings.
You've probably already decided that anyhow.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Maurice and Lynn

The picture of the seal looks like those used on 3-ton Chevy CMPs as well and I have never found a modern replacement. So if anyone does find a modern equivalent please make a general posting on the source.

Does anyone have the Carrier part number for this seal so we can see if it is the same as used on Ford and Chevy CMPS?

There was a lengthy thread on these type seals (outward sealing) concerning trucks some time back that I will try and find.

These seals on the trucks are really not critical as you really need to get the truck on quite a side angle for the differential lube to run out this far in the housing, but on a carrier it maybe much more critical.

Cheers Phil

[Maurice Donckers]

Yes phil , the seals on chev, 15cwt 4x4 upwards , and Ford , and Carriers use the same seal.

[Paul Dutton]

Originally Posted by Maurice Donckers

Yes phil , the seals on chev, 15cwt 4x4 upwards , and Ford , and Carriers use the same seal.

Are these seals steel encapsulated?
Do they have a steel outer rim then a rubber lip?
Is there a spring inside the rubber lip as for a rotary shaft seal?
I know a company over here that may be able to either make them or source them.
Can I have full dimentions and rubber hardness please and will enquire, they are only local to me!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Maurice,

As discussed earlier, I don't recognise the seal as I don't think my truck has it.

Can someone point out the part number, please? See attached exploded view.

Thanks,
Hanno

[Marc van Aalderen]

Maurice & Hanno,

I have emailed some scans from the British Chilwell Catalogue and manual for the UC to you both that show these parts very well. I could not post as the scans are 3Mb.

Cheers,

[Maurice Donckers]

Hanno your truck should have them . The seal we are talking about is the seal on the picture from Lynn. it is a metal washer with a leather lip ., there is no spring in it to expand it just a washer with a leather surround .
Marc in your exploded view, I cant see which way it is pointing , Chev manual is not clear , Ford not , and carrier is also not pointing it out , because they are drawings.

[Marc van Aalderen]

Maurice,

If I look at the seal it is an U-shape and cylindrical on the outside. It falls over the outside of the steel plate with the U groove. Because it is cylindrical on the outside diameter it shouldn't matter which way you install it? It is only to hold the grease in so not very critical if it doesn't seal a 100%. It is called: Retainer, grease, shaft (split ring). I have a couple NOS in my workshop but will not be there till Saturday. If you want I can have a look at them and get back to you.

Cheers,

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Marc van Aalderen

Maurice,

If I look at the seal it is an U-shape and cylindrical on the outside. It falls over the outside of the steel plate with the U groove. Because it is cylindrical on the outside diameter it shouldn't matter which way you install it? It is only to hold the grease in so not very critical if it doesn't seal a 100%. It is called: Retainer, grease, shaft (split ring). I have a couple NOS in my workshop but will not be there till Saturday. If you want I can have a look at them and get back to you.

Cheers,

Marc,
I believe that "mechanical seal" is the British version, the Canadian one has the leather lip, interchangeable, the plate is also a locking device for the inner hub nut which has a peg / dowel in it. A good seal due to the stepped joint on the U shaped ring.

regards Richard

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Marc van Aalderen

I have emailed some scans from the British Chilwell Catalogue and manual for the UC to you both that show these parts very well. I could not post as the scans are 3Mb.

Thanks Marc,

I've grabbed some of the pictures in your scans, see attachments.

The "Retainer, grease, shaft (split ring)" you mention is no.54 in the first drawing.

Hanno

[Maurice Donckers]

Hanno and Marc these are the British seals . T he ones used on Canadian CMP`s and canadian carriers have a lip which faces to one side or the other

[Hanno Spoelstra]

I would mount them so they keep the grease in.

Where can you buy them?

[Maurice Donckers]

Maybe, Dirk Leegwater. Set up for bearing is first hexagon nut with pin , then lock washer, then that seal , and finally another hexagon plain nut to lock everything .
I always put these seakl back in the*way they came out , but now because they were both different in , it made me think about how they realy should go in , most vehicles I worked on had them the way in to keep the grease in the Bearings.

[Lynn Eades]

Hanno the modern grease is not going to move, where as the oil might. I would put mine in to keep the oil out. (i have said already that the need for a seal at all, is dependant on how steep the sidings are that you might run / park on.
As the carrier is very likely to throw a track sidling a hill, I would be inclined to not worry too much about which way it is fitted. It is recommended to a ascend or decend hills directly, rather than sidling
I believe it was made to keep the oil out(of the wheel bearings) and limited to the diff and axle tube.
Paul, me and my photos are in another country, from my carriers ( a bit like you being in Poland) so can't help with the physical stuff.
Phill, sorry, I can't help.

[Michael R.]

Ford Canada calls for four (4) of the same seals in the rear axle. (EDIT NOTE: Info Lynn E., an error in the manual, the inner and outer seals are not the same part or part number)

The Canadian manual FUC-03 did call for the standard British seal, LV3/FD BB 4245-B. However, when stocks were depleted, the Canadian seal was to be supplied. That seal shows up with two different Canadian part numbers, C01T-4702 being the final replacement of both LV3/FD BB 4245-B and C01Q 4702 B.

Looking at Chilwell, you can see the rear axle grease retainer in the selection of different country supplied part numbers. As Hanno indicated, the illustration # 54 points to British part number LV3/FD BB 4245-B. In Chilwell, the American part number is not GAE 4702 as found in FUC-03, but is BB-4245-B, same as the Chilwell part number.

(Edit)

(Edit)

[Lynn Eades]

Michael, your pictures are to small/ low resolution for me to see.
The inner seals you are referring to, I believe go in the axle tube, the outer being different. The inners are designed to keep the diff oil in the diff and the axle tubes dry. This is a different spec to the axles we have been discussing prior to your post. The earlier axles never used any of those inner 4702's, and the diff oil could inhabit the axle tube. The use of these seals would require a seal track to be finished on the inner end of each half shaft, and a sized area in the housings, which I don't think the early housings are finished for.The 4702 refers to an axle seal the prefix and suffix define the difference between the two. The one available from Macs is the inner one, which yes, is installed with the lip facing in toward the diff, to keep the oil in the diff.

So far we don't have anything on the leather outer seal, other than my photo. it's counterpart being variously; (from Michael's post)
CO1T 4702
O1T 1124
BB 1124 B

[Michael R.]

The seals you are referring to, I believe go in the axle tube, 1 inner and one outer per side

Which seals are not for the Carrier? Lynn, I cannot enlarge the images to a file size that MLU will accept,
but perhaps if you save them and open in something like MS Paint, you can enlarge them for viewing.

[Lynn Eades]

Michael, if you look at the link you put up from Macs, that's the inner.
I now see the inner seal on the first image you posted. It is shown at the top left. There is a printing error as the two (inner and outer)
are identified as the same seal. (not to be confused with the inner hub seal BB 1175 C)

[Lynn Eades]

Your outer is marked "Victor 49850"

[Michael R.]

Yes, all good. I see that error issue, and the fact that the count reflects two (2), not four (4). Yes, the outer seal is marked Victor 49850.
It is close to eight years to the day when this entire topic was kicked down the road by Rob L., Bob, C., Col. Tigwell and Phil W. Everything old is new again.
Just a little more difficult to acquire NOS seals in sardine cans, swimming in oil.
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4433