MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Carrier Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14-07-11, 01:55
ajmac's Avatar
ajmac ajmac is offline
Alastair McMurray
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lincoln, England
Posts: 429
Default Removing a bogie from the axle...

OK, it's got me, is there anything special required to pull the bogie from the axle once the retaining collar has been removed? It took me an hour to get the bl**dy collar off but the bogie won't even rotate on the axle let alone pull off I will soak it in penetrant oil for a while and see where we go from there....
Have a look below:
Attached Thumbnails
13072011198.jpg  
__________________
Alastair
Lincoln, UK.


Under Restoration:
1944 No2 MK2 Loyd Carrier - Tracked Towing

The Loyd on Facebook
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 14-07-11, 03:39
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,327
Default

I can't say I have ever had a problem removing the collar off the shaft. I usually tap the flat blade of a screwdriver into the cut and spread it a bit.

On a proper cross shaft the bogie would just slide off. However on a length of rusty pipe the results are obviously different. Pull the grease fitting on the bogie assembly and fill the hollow with penetrating oil. I would suggest the first step after that would be to get the bogies to rotate on the shaft. You could cut the pipe off and then use a pipe wrench on the remaining stub. Once you get it to turn, you might be able to work it out.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 14-07-11, 03:48
Lynn Eades's Avatar
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
Bluebell
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,468
Default Alistair

They have a wide bronze bush in each side. If it was in nice cond. it would just slide off. There are a few possibilities; 1. schrapnel damage 2. they have seized due to lack of lube, and could be gaulled (bronze or steel has picked up on the other. 3. the unit has big wear, and it is caught on a wear shoulder. This is unlikely as you cant turn it.
First, what are you trying to save? I suspect it the axle (the casting is not a Loyd one?)
I would work on shedding weight. Start with the penetrating oil.Remove the nuts from the rods. Get/make a puller for the rods, and draw the rods back far enough to move the other end clear of the holes in the bogie fork. Remove the axles and wheels (all 3)
Remove the clamp bolt and punch out thr bogie fork pivot pin. ( one end has the collar pinned to it. the other end has a lead on the pin. drive from this end) Remove the arm. (there are seals in here-might be hard to get)
Now back to what you want to do. If you dont want the casting you could cut it. If you want to keep it, you are going to have to set up a puller to drag the casting off by pushing on the shaft. you will probably need to fabricate some sort of strong back to go around the cross shaft.
The springs dont look like Loyd ones either, they look like U.C. ones.
Are all Loyd springs the same? Hope some of this helps. I really enjoy your posts. Cheers.
Note:Remove you brass pressure valve first, and put it in a safe place.
__________________
Bluebell

Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....

Last edited by Lynn Eades; 14-07-11 at 03:55.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 14-07-11, 10:39
Ben Ben is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 543
Default

Hi

One of mine was stuck solid, I suspect similar to yours by the look of things. I found the best way was to make a small "bath" from a plastic bottle, i siliconed it to the end of the shaft and left a commercial rust remover in the bath to soak into the rust. you know when it starts to work as the level of liquid begins to drop!!!.

Mine was still attached to the hull so i could jack up one side and leave the weight of the hull on one wheel as the rust dissolved this allowed the boogie to rotate on the shaft. It did take some effort once it was moving to get it off but once it starts to rotate it only gets easier!!

It took a few days to soak in enough to move but i tried pullers and heat, hammers, jacks, you name it....... in the end the leave it and wait solution worked best!!! no damage to either part and the axle was good inside where the grease had been. It's only the small section at the ends that rusts. like Lynn says, the middle section is a brass bush.

Good luck

Ben
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 14-07-11, 11:06
kevin powles's Avatar
kevin powles kevin powles is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 1,925
Default

Alister, What you will find is your inner coller opposite to the one you have removed is probabley rusted, What you need to do if you have no proper hydraulic press is to hang the whole thing up on a chain block after first removing the road wheels and spray in plenty of release oil with the thing tilted down so the release oil will run into the coller area, leave for a few days. Get a plummers gas bottle and heat up the coller for a while.

Clamp the square part of the cross tube in a large vice and with it still supported on a chain block. Put your road wheel pins back in and get yourself a 6 foot plus scaffold pole and start rotating the whole thing on the cross tube back and forth. Once it starts to turn carrying on rotating it in a anti clockwise direction, between rotating it you can attemt to tap it off the cross tube with a large copper mallet.

Once you get it rotating it will come off, this worked for me. I have just made up three new collers as like you had to chisel out the outer ones.

All the best kevin.
__________________
2pdr Tank Hunter Universal Carrier 1942 registered 11/11/2008.
3" Mortar Universal Carrier 1943 registered 06/06/2009.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, Caunter camo.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, light stone.
10 cwt wartime mortar trailer.
1943 Mk2 Daimler Dingo.
1943 Willys MB.
1936 Vickers MG carrier No1 Mk1 CMM 985.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 14-07-11, 11:14
eddy8men eddy8men is offline
AKA Rick Wedlock
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: manchester
Posts: 715
Default

all good advice already given, if it were me i'd file the rust off the end of the shaft and fill the thing with oil then walk away and let it soak. when you've got bored of waiting go back with a sledge and get the bogie to rotate around the axle by knocking it back and forth, once it starts to move it won't take long.
this is of course the brute force way of doing things and i'm sure there's others more elegant ways but i've always thought that "if in doubt give it a clout"

good luck with your endeavours.

rick
__________________
_______________________
1941 mk1 mortar Carrier
1941 Mk1* Carrier
1942 Mk1* Carrier
1943 T16 Carrier
1945 Mk3 Dingo
1941 Mk3 Covenanter
1941 Mk4 Churchill AVRE (now sold)
1944 Mk6 Cromwell (now sold)
1952 Mk3 Centurion
1952 ARV Centurion
1952 ARV Centurion
1953 Mk3 Centurion (breaking)

Last edited by eddy8men; 14-07-11 at 14:52.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 14-07-11, 12:22
ajmac's Avatar
ajmac ajmac is offline
Alastair McMurray
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lincoln, England
Posts: 429
Default

All good advice, thanks.
You wouldn't believe the hardship in removing parts when a vehicle has been on a firing range. A component will look fine, untouched, then in some out of the way place there is a small schrapnal mark that makes disasembly a nightmare. The bogie retaining collar looked fine, but on close inspection there was an impact that went right through to the shaft welding the whole thing together! Now I know there is a brass bush inside I have a warmer feeling about it all

The bogie is original and Loyds had the same part number as UCs, interestingly post war the Belgians must have used up old Windsor stock and the track and two wheels on each side are Windsor items! In the photo the right hand wheel is Windsor with the wider rim and push on tyre.
__________________
Alastair
Lincoln, UK.


Under Restoration:
1944 No2 MK2 Loyd Carrier - Tracked Towing

The Loyd on Facebook
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 14-07-11, 13:41
Lynn Eades's Avatar
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
Bluebell
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,468
Default Alastair

There are two bronze bushes, 1 inner and 1outer, with a gap in between for grease. they push into the bore from each side. there is a shoulder on the end of the bushes to locare them. Thanks for the heads up on the parts compatability. It leaves me wondering what the set of springs I have are for. They are longer than UC springs, but are wound from a smaller dia. wire. Maybe a different model, or earlier Loyd.
On that note, can you post a picture from your parts book of the fan extention, generator etc.
__________________
Bluebell

Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 15-07-11, 12:16
ajmac's Avatar
ajmac ajmac is offline
Alastair McMurray
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lincoln, England
Posts: 429
Default

The parts book is incorrect in terms of the specific images used for the fan drive (shows UC), however the engine images are correct. It shows UC parts, but the engine is from a 7V and uses all the normal truck parts, however the fan is a special. Attached is an original wartime photo of a Loyd engine, you can see it is the same as the 7V 'Instruction Manual' picture that I scanned in. The dual pully and fan bolt directly onto the Dynamo shaft.

Perhaps people can ID the springs used: Inner = TL1386, Outer = TL332

Interestingly on the same page of the parts book it lists the road wheels, five different types! All part No: TL1572A, listed under this as drawing refs is: TL94 (obsolescent), TL14702/1, TL14702/2, TL14722/1 & TL14722/2, presumably if we could find these drawings one of them would be the wheel with the round holes....
Return rollers: TL986SA or TL860SA with various wheel options on drawings: TL14061, TL14752, TL14762/1 & TL14762/2
Attached Thumbnails
LC27.jpg   BritishFlatheadV8.jpg   LoydPartsBookV8.jpg  
__________________
Alastair
Lincoln, UK.


Under Restoration:
1944 No2 MK2 Loyd Carrier - Tracked Towing

The Loyd on Facebook

Last edited by ajmac; 15-07-11 at 12:36.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 17-07-11, 05:34
Dave Schindel Dave Schindel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: S.E. Sask. Canada
Posts: 267
Default

I got mine apart using the method Rob Love used.Remove the grease fitting and any bolts/collars etc. that are visible.Soak with a GOOD penetrating fluid while spreading the clamping parts with a chisel or screwdriver.May take a few days but is better than damaging good parts.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 17-07-11, 09:36
RichardT10829's Avatar
RichardT10829 RichardT10829 is offline
Richard Harrison
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cullercoats Newcastle Upon Tyne United Kingdom
Posts: 3,056
Default

i got mine off by utilising the grease nipple method except i used a high psi grease pump and literally forced the grease in until it came out of either end, then with the hull jacked up rocked the bogey assembly until it began to move..... if you can get the front steel collar out you have pretty much cracked it as it is this i found that rusts onto the stub.

obviously it is a million times easier to do this job when the tube is in the hull.... you dont have this luxury... i would adopt Kevins approach and let the weight of the bogey do the work for you, if you are short of Pen oil i would fill it with diesel or AT fluid both have fantastic penetrating propertys
__________________
is mos redintegro

__5th Div___46th Div__
1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*
Lower Hull No. 10131
War Department CT54508 (SOLD)
1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration).
1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration).
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 20-07-11, 13:07
Lynn Eades's Avatar
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
Bluebell
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,468
Default Alistair

Re your P.M.
Universal carriers have front springs and rear springs.
Front outers;
10 1/2 coils, 10.22 to 10.42" long. TL332
Front inners;
13 1/4 coils, 9.09 to 9.19" long TL331

Rear outers;
9 3/4 coils, 9.4 to 9.6" long TL126
Rear inners are the same as front inners.

The part numbers are often stamped at the ends of the spring.

Alistair I have some (as previously mentioned) longer lighter outer springs that I thought were Loyd springs.
I have also taken longer, lighter inners from U.C. suspensions. I am keen to have you list the specs of the Loyd springs eg TL 1386 which is probably a Loyd part.
__________________
Bluebell

Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016