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  #31  
Old 31-01-05, 17:23
RichTO90 RichTO90 is offline
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Hi all, some answers to these questions.

There were just three LCT (CB) assigned to the British beaches on D-Day, two on JUNO and one on SWORD. These carried the six Fireflies of 259 Corps Delivery Squadron, manned by crews drawn from 2 CAB and 27th Armoured Brigade.

The LCT (CB) at SWORD was LCT 2337, which was given the plan serial number 548. It was part of Group II, Assault Group S3 and was manned by personnel of the 100th LCT Flotilla, RN.

The two LCT (CB) at JUNO were LCT 2338 (serial number 1420) (10 CAR-manned) in Group J.322 (9th Brigade Group), manned by 106th LCT Flotilla, RN and LCT 2041 (6 CAR-manned) in Group J.312 (7th Brigade Group), manned by 105th LCT Flotilla, RN.

There was no actual difference between LCT (A), (HE) or (CB), all were basic LCT 5 with armored conning towers and a raised ramp allowing vehicles to fire over the bows during the run in. On the British beaches LCT (A) and (HE) were loaded with Centaurs and Sherman OP of the Royal Marine Armoured Support Group (1st and 2nd Regiment and 5th Independant Battery). The difference between the (A) and the (HE) was that the (HE) also carried the explosives for the RE and RN LCOCU to use in clearing the tidal obstacles (in other words the designation (HE) was a warning ).

BTW, LCT (A), (HE) and (CB) were not utilized for the AVRE of the Assault Squadrons, RE. Those were brought in on standard LCT 5 of other LCT flotillas, but were grouped with the same waves as the LCT (A) Flotillas, which appears to be the source of confusion on that point.

On the American beaches the LCT (A) and (HE) were loaded with the wading tanks of the DD tank battalions (two each) as well as tankdozers for obstacle clearance (one each). Again the designation (HE) simply meant that it was one loaded with the explosives carried for the Special Engineer Task Force.

Curiously however, in one of the various D-Day studies prepared by the army and navy staffs in 1945 a reference is made to LCT (CB) at the American beaches! (Part III, Naval Forces, Strength and Casualty Special Study for Gen Morgan and Gale, 6 February 1945, NARA RG 338, ETO Secretary Genaeral Staff, Statiistics Section, Historical and Statistical Reports, 1944-45, Box #2.) This counts three LCT (CB) in the Eastern Task Force and two in the Western Task Force. Unfortunately, I have been unable to identify them in any of the task force reports for the Western Task Force, so they may be a mirage. (Actually, since the Americans did not have two Fireflies to put in them, they were simply subsumed as LCT (A) and (HE) in the American plans).

Sources for the foregoing are:

ADM 179/391, 458, 504, 505, 506, and 516 and ADM 199/1558, 1559, and 1561

Hope this is of interest.

Last edited by RichTO90; 31-01-05 at 17:29.
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  #32  
Old 31-01-05, 22:26
kevinT kevinT is offline
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Default Loading Tables

Just a little additional info to your tables for 13th / 18th Hussars
Turret no. 70 was Cavalier T152270 and
Turret no. 77 was Comrade T152153
I wish I knew who turret no. 11 was.

Cheers
Kevin
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  #33  
Old 01-02-05, 13:38
John Tapsell John Tapsell is offline
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Kevin/Rich,

Thanks guys. The information is much appreciated.

Kevin - if you work out the name of #11, then you'll make a number of people very happy )

Rich - I'm interested in your comments about the difference between the LCT types. My understanding was that the (A) variant was armoured, but the CB variant was not (although identical in all other respects).

I haven't studied the ADM documents myself - I've been concentrating on the WO series, so the cross-check is useful.

Thanks,
John
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  #34  
Old 03-02-05, 15:37
RichTO90 RichTO90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Tapsell
Rich - I'm interested in your comments about the difference between the LCT types. My understanding was that the (A) variant was armoured, but the CB variant was not (although identical in all other respects).
Well, considering the differences in our languages, the two navies involved were consistently inconsistent in how they referred to the different types. Normally they are all simply referred to as "LCT (A)" in the primary documentation - at least the narrative parts. So quite frequently an LCT (HE) may be referrred to in a group as LCT (A). But in the landing tables they are carefully differentiated. So it appears that in fact they were somewhat interchangeable. All had the raised timber ramp, but it may be questionable if the additrional armor was added to the conn? I really am not sure, although I strongly suspect that the only real difference was their function.
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  #35  
Old 06-02-05, 22:48
wayne c. petrie wayne c. petrie is offline
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Hi everyone.
I have been brousing your forum off and on for sometime now.I must say it is very informative.
I have been searching the web for photo's and such of Canadian armour in WW2,especially for photo's of the Fort Garry Horse.My father was a trooper with the Garry's.I found a photo,I believe,of him in the Liberation of Holland,[Haren] on top of a Firefly.
It was of great interest that I read of the tank named 'Carole".My father had the name 'Carole" on his tank.It was named after Carole Lombard,the actress.I had a photo of it,but all photo's were distroyed in a house fire.My youngest sister is named "Carole",after his tank.Could this be the same tank in your photo's?Or were there more than one tank with this name?
My father passed away in 1968 but told me a few stories of the war.One was how the smaller gun shells would bounce off the German tanks and how glad he was when he got a 'larger gun'.
Any answers to my post will be greatly appreciated.
Thankyou in advance.

Wayne
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  #36  
Old 07-02-05, 00:47
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Mark W. Tonner Mark W. Tonner is offline
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Post Re: "Carole"

Quote:
Originally posted by wayne c. petrie
It was of great interest that I read of the tank named 'Carole".My father had the name 'Carole" on his tank.It was named after Carole Lombard,the actress.I had a photo of it,but all photo's were distroyed in a house fire.My youngest sister is named "Carole",after his tank.Could this be the same tank in your photo's?Or were there more than one tank with this name?
Hi Wayne;

The tank "Carole" referred to off and on throughout this thread was one which was named and operated by "C" Squadron, 13th/18th Royal Hussars (Queen Mary's Own) of the British Army.

Hopefully, Gord Crossley (FGH Museum and Archives), a forum member here will see your post and respond.

Cheers
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  #37  
Old 07-02-05, 02:46
wayne c. petrie wayne c. petrie is offline
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Thanks Mark for your quick reply.

Wayne
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  #38  
Old 07-02-05, 14:25
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gcrossley gcrossley is offline
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Default Fort Garry Horse

Hi Wayne,

Feel free to contact me offline through our website:

http://www.fortgarryhorse.ca

Go to the Museum section and you will see a contact link there for me.

Cheers,

Gord Crossley
FGH Museum and Archives
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  #39  
Old 08-02-05, 00:55
wayne c. petrie wayne c. petrie is offline
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Thankyou Gord for your reply.
I will contact you shortly at your link.

Wayne
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  #40  
Old 03-12-05, 14:44
Tony Chapman Tony Chapman is offline
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Hello John
I recall being in contact with you quite some time ago but cannot recall giving you the answer to your question here.....if i did, my apologies....if I didn't read below:-

Assigned with the 7th Brigade at Courseulles was the MK5 LCT(CB) 2041 of Lt Edward Prentice and Sub Lieutenant Norman Vingoe.......present in support and in convoy with the combined craft of the of the 102nd (AVRE) and 105th LCT(A) with the RMASG.

To the eastwards at Bernieres and St Aubin with the 8th Brigade went Lt Robert Pardingtons LCT(CB) 2338 with the combined craft of the 103rd LCT(A) with the RMASG and the 106th Flotilla (AVRE).

If I have repeated myself John, my apologies.


Tony Chapman
Official Archivist/Historian
LST and Landing Craft Association (Royal Navy)
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  #41  
Old 19-10-13, 23:11
Roddy de Normann Roddy de Normann is offline
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Default Firefly Concrete Busters

Gentlemen -

Great, great analysis...but any Census numbers found amongst all the other details ?

Roddy
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  #42  
Old 22-10-13, 00:31
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Johnny gers Johnny gers is offline
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Default Building LCT 610-212

Saw this tread. You mentioned Landing craft 212 in this thread. I have build all the vehicles now in 1/35 for the landing craft and soon will build the accuate armour LCT 4. Blog on military modellering.

Johnny
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  #43  
Old 22-10-13, 10:13
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
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Quote:
Saw this tread. You mentioned Landing craft 212 in this thread. I have build all the vehicles now in 1/35 for the landing craft and soon will build the accuate armour LCT 4. Blog on military modellering.
Johnny,

Love to see more. Do you have a direct link? As you can see in this thread I had a similar plan as you, but I stranded halfway building Carole, the ARV and Ford GPA in favor of other projects. I did finish "Balaclava".

Alex
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Last edited by Alex van de Wetering; 22-10-13 at 10:28.
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  #44  
Old 23-10-13, 11:22
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Johnny gers Johnny gers is offline
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Default Name of blog for landing craft 212

The name of the blog on military modelling is Overlord and Beyond Vol III. It's been such a long blog I have gone through two other threads. There are links on the first post to take you back to those threads.may be more easy just to google it. Not that good in putting links in here. I do have Bipola. so once more such

Overlord and beyond vol iii. Should find it easily

Johnnny
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  #45  
Old 02-09-15, 22:22
Clif Weston Clif Weston is offline
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Default Lct 2338

My Dad Rodney (Vic) Weston (RN) served on this landing craft I'll add a photo of it when I get back from France next week. On the run in to Juno he was operating the Port mg his oppo was on the starboard which was hit by a shell. The Fireflies were he said propped up on wooden ramps which the rode over once beached. As they left the beach he thought they were hit amidships by a shell I see from another thread it was probably a teller mine. The ship capsized in the bay and the crew wounded and unwounded (my Dad had flash burns to his neck) were left sitting on the stern none of them could swim and no-one could rescue them. He said at the time that although they had no water everybody threw them cigarettes. After a bit he said they tasted like cardboard. He vowed never to smoke again. At full tide they floated ashore he reckoned on Omaha but I'm not sure. He and his shipmates hitched as lift on a jeep he thought driven by a yank who drove them to Caen still in German hands. On arrival the bedraggled sailors in battledress but sailor hats were arrested by a US MP and locked up in a cellar for a few days during which he was posted MIA probably dead. I suspect the Jeep driver and MPs were Canadians not US. Eventually released he returned to his ship which was repaired and acted as part of the stores transport for the next month or so and then served in the attack on the Antwerp estuary. Sadly he did return to smoking continuing until his sixties until he gave up but still died of smoking related heart disease on his 72nd birthday
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