Australia and Lend-Lease

[Mike Kelly]

Interesting

http://abmm.org/australias-wwii-lend-lease-program/

[Mike Kelly]

Some of the stuff in the article needs editing.

"Most people who were living near major military areas in Australia immediately following the Second World War will relate stories of seeing masses of partially stripped aircraft and vehicles waiting for the smelters or the scrap merchants. "

Most people ? Some of the statements are a bit over the top , the author has exaggerated with his own opinions spread all over the article. The article needs to be checked over by others with a more even outlook.

"Perhaps forewarned of the 1949 “Fullbright” agreement, the Australian government held off on the disposal of the bulk of the RAAF and USAAC C47/DC3 and PBY Catalina aircraft"

The PBY's were sold off in situ up at lake boga , they were not "held off" http://www.goodall.com.au/australian.../lakeboga.html

[Lang]

Mike

That article has it "nearly" right.

The Japanese cave airfield and a number of other jeep-in-box style stories are BS.

The lost vehicles supposedly in highly populated Guam are actually out of Alby Mangel's first home movie of the abandoned atomic test island base of Palmyra - Korean era vehicles.

The Catalina and DC-3 rescue from destruction are true (see attached Treaty).

This is the finest and most simple international agreement ever written. Billions of today's value in dollars for the entire WW2 USA/Australia Lend Lease program all accounted for, everybody responsible for their own actions, totally done and dusted within a few months of the end of the war on 1 page. It shows what can be done if politicians and public servants set out with good intentions.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/d...es/1946/6.html

Lang

[Mike Cecil]

The article concerned needs a big injection of truth and big reduction in sensationalism.

Had to dispose of LL equipment? What about all the vehicles used for many years post war - M3A5 Grants, CCKW353 trucks, US6 trucks, jeeps, Staghounds, DUKW, 42WLA Harley Davidsons - the list goes on. Or were they 'held over/disposal delayed' pending a change in policy like the claims he makes for the PBYs and DC3/C47s?

The CDC's three-tier method of disposal was clearly laid down, and applied to both LL equipment no longer required by the Aust armed forces and the RLL equipment returned to the Commonwealth by US Forces for disposal. I'm yet to locate any documentation about the CDC handling the disposal of ex-US military/US sourced materiel that had not been supplied to the Commonwealth, ie ex-US Forces equipment.

I don't see any mention of the Mutual Aid exchanged with Canada, which would seem just as relevant to his article, but I suppose that's his choice as an author.

Mike

[Lang]

Mike

Paragraph 8(a) of the treaty says what happened to the American equipment left in Australia. We paid $6,500,000 for it and we now owned it.

In lieu of any specific American equipment sales records on your radar do you suppose that stuff was just sold off (or kept in storage as you indicated for lots of gear) along with the rest of the equipment? eg A sale of 100 jeeps in Townsville may have included 20 American jeeps with no differentiation?

The Australian jeeps would have been recorded and written off on the records which you have access to but the American jeep records could be as simple as a note in the sales report saying " Lot 34 Ford Jeep USA" or even just "Lot 34 Ford Jeep"?

A bit more info from that treaty stated not only would Australia still get all the gear they ordered that was on board ships at sea they would also get all their current back orders fulfilled by American contractors and this would be loaded on to ships by the Americans for Australia - who covered the cost of freight.

I believe this is probably where the big stocks of new equipment, not refurbished, (Studebakers, White Scout Cars? etc) stored at Bandiana, Singleton and other depots came from.

Lang

[Mike Cecil]

Lang,

The CDC disposals reporting I have located thus far is quite specific as to the source of the materiel: Australian army, RAAF and RAN equipment, including items supplied under LL, are listed as such, and RLL equipment returned to the Commonwealth from US Forces is listed separately as the value had to be accounted for against the RLL account. Virtually all vehicles are listed by chassis/engine numbers and military registration number - be that RAN, RAAF, Aust Army, US Army, US Navy, etc.

All I can say is that I've not come across any CDC listings for the disposal of US Forces equipment left in Australia (other than RLL equipment being returned to the Commonwealth) which, if there was so much of it as suggested by the article, you would anticipate some lists would have surfaced.

As for the back-orders, most were simply cancelled. For example, as of 30 June 1945, Australia had about 1,000 jeeps allocated from the monthly production quota in America against orders and awaiting shipping. Most of these were subsequently shipped to Australia, but the back-orders for a further 4,000-odd were simply cancelled.

Mike

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

The article concerned needs a big injection of truth and big reduction in sensationalism.



Mike

I agree . Sadly, people tend to become carried away with the war surplus 'stories' and this article has done its best , unfortunately, and added to the myths.

In this case, I would be relying on the CDC records and not so much on uncle so and so's recollections of his times in the army. Sometimes , the official records are the more reliable source . Paint, well that's another story

[Lang]

Mike

Just had a thought when you mentioned RLL stuff being returned. I presume this stuff was what he Americans did not want and was included in the $6,500,000 payment for all their leftovers. We had "sold" or "traded" it to them as part of the LL/RLL operation and it was technically just more American owned equipment.

Could the American jeeps etc being sold just be classified under RLL returns alongside say the Plymouth staff cars built in South Australia for the Americans.
If that was the case there would be no record of specific "American" sales.

Lang