Towing the jeep now legal

Little Jo · #1 05-09-12, 05:10

Hi All

I have been off the air for a while but I am now back. Some of you may recall that I had a thread going regarding "A" Frame Towing which prompted a lot of responses. I have now finalised the project and I am happy to report that everything worked out and I have complied with all the legalities after seeking legal advice and I am now Legal to tow my 1942 MB Willys Jeep behind my family vehicle.

You may recall I first looked at the idea becuase I have storage restrictions at home and to pay for storing a trailer was not cost effective. The solution to that was the "A" Frame idea. I obtained all the Road Traffic Board legislation regarding "A Frame Towing and had the frame made accoding to their specifcations and I included a simle braking system as well.

Once all was finalised I towed the Jeep for a long drive which included driving through the hills, townships and as many roundabouts I could find and I must report I was impressed with the way the vehicles handled, no hiccups at all and I am looking forward to towing my Jeep to the Troop Train Re enactment and the Jamestown Airshow re enactment at the end of September/October.

I would recommend the alternative to trailer towing to anyone who has storage problems at home as the "A" Frame takes up no space at all. For long trips I remove the rear axles and place a cover over the axle, (see photo below.) and I have fitted Free Wheeling Hubs to the front wheels, so now as I tow my Jeep all four wheels are free wheeling and there are no moving parts in the transmission, Transfer Case, drive shafts and Crown Wheel and Pinion. All so easy and with the brakes working on all wheels a dream to tow.

I decided to pass this on in case there are other MLU members out there who may have had similar problems with storage. My total cost to manufacture the "A" Frame was the same as hiring a car trailer for a long weekend. So from now on I save hiring trailer costs everytime I attend a club function.

Cheers

Tony

Ian L · #2 05-09-12, 08:34

Hi Tony this is the link you were referring to http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=18742

Little Jo · #3 05-09-12, 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian L

Hi Tony this is the link you were referring to http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=18742

Hi Ian

Yep that's it. Thanks mate.

Cheers

Tony

Richard Coutts-Smith · #4 05-09-12, 08:56

Well done Tony.
I was wondering how you were getting on with the tow situation.
Guess we will be seeing you at Corowa next year, considering it is the Year of Towed Equipment!
Rich.

easo · #5 05-09-12, 09:25

Thats great, are you using a light board for rear lights or have you wired a system using the existing jeep lights?

Easo

Little Jo · #6 05-09-12, 11:21

Hi Rich and Easo

Yes I am very pleased, a big problem solved.

Rich. I will definately be coming to Corowa, and how nice to make it a special year of the towed vehicle. I look forward to catching up with you guys for a chin wag.

Easo. I did look at trying to use the existing Jeep lighting system, but found it easier to use the board. I have had to put a reflector sign on the board stating: "DO NOT PASS TURNING VEHICLE", a requirement as the towed and towing vehicle is over 7.5 metres. Silly really as you don't have to use it on a car carrying trailer which is a lot longer, but hey, no big deal. I will post a photo later.

Cheers

Tony

Ian L · #7 05-09-12, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Jo

Hi Rich and Easo

Yes I am very pleased, a big problem solved.

Rich. I will definately be coming to Corowa, and how nice to make it a special year of the towed vehicle. I look forward to catching up with you guys for a chin wag.

Easo. I did look at trying to use the existing Jeep lighting system, but found it easier to use the board. I have had to put a reflector sign on the board stating: "DO NOT PASS TURNING VEHICLE", a requirement as the towed and towing vehicle is over 7.5 metres. Silly really as you don't have to use it on a car carrying trailer which is a lot longer, but hey, no big deal. I will post a photo later.

Cheers

Tony

Cheers

You do have some funny rules 'down under' Tony

Happy towing, Ian

Little Jo · #8 05-09-12, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian L

Cheers

You do have some funny rules 'down under' Tony

Happy towing, Ian

Hi Ian

Yes mate it can be confusing. When I obtained the legislation for other states I found that they all had variations on what one could do and not do. But I am now legal in all states. When I attend the Corowa week long show next March I will actually be travelling through 3 states and the boys in Blue just love vehicles with out of state number plates.

Cheers

Tony

Little Jo · #9 06-09-12, 01:45

Hi Easo

I have attached a photo of the rear board as promised.

Cheers

Tony

easo · #10 06-09-12, 12:49

Thanks Tony, I have toyed with lights from car to car. The initial idea was to have my old 1957 Land Rover's lights come on in conjunction with its trailer. Mucking around with it, I could only get the parkers and brake lights to work but not the indicator.

The light board is far more useful I recon.

Easo

Little Jo · #11 06-09-12, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by easo

Thanks Tony, I have toyed with lights from car to car. The initial idea was to have my old 1957 Land Rover's lights come on in conjunction with its trailer. Mucking around with it, I could only get the parkers and brake lights to work but not the indicator.

The light board is far more useful I recon.

Easo

Hi Easo

When was thinking about tapping direct lighting from the towing vehicle to the towed vehicle. I toyed with the idea that if I run a 5 pin cable from the towing vehicle and plug the other end of the cable into the 5 pin outlet on the towed vehicle, the thought being that as the Jeep lights were already wired up to the 5 pin out. I did not test it to see if it may work in revers order. I chickened out and took the easy way and purchased the light board. Nice and simple and no problems.

Cheers

Tony

Ian L · #12 06-09-12, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Jo

Hi Easo

When was thinking about tapping direct lighting from the towing vehicle to the towed vehicle. I toyed with the idea that if I run a 5 pin cable from the towing vehicle and plug the other end of the cable into the 5 pin outlet on the towed vehicle, the thought being that as the Jeep lights were already wired up to the 5 pin out. I did not test it to see if it may work in revers order. I chickened out and took the easy way and purchased the light board. Nice and simple and no problems.

Cheers

Tony

Hi Tony I've tried it and failed

back in the UK we have a 7 pin socket on towing vehicles.
I made up a lead with male connectors on both ends and plugged it into both 7 pin sockets thinking the lights would repeat on the towed vehicle. THEY DONT !!!!

Little Jo · #13 07-09-12, 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian L

Hi Tony I've tried it and failed

back in the UK we have a 7 pin socket on towing vehicles.
I made up a lead with male connectors on both ends and plugged it into both 7 pin sockets thinking the lights would repeat on the towed vehicle. THEY DONT !!!!

Hi Ian

I am glad to know someone had tried it, I feel better now and pleased I went with the Light Board.

Cheers

Tony

easo · #14 07-09-12, 11:57

Socket to socket was show I tried. No indicators.

easo · #15 11-09-12, 11:42

More questions,

Rego, yes or no.
Club or Full.

Tight turning, does the steering still follow when conducting tight turns?

Reversing, again how does the steering behave when going backwards?

Length of A-frame, how did you decide on the right length?

Breaks, do you have a set up for brake away brakes? Does it require them?

What does a Jeep Weigh?

Reason I ask, I have a 1957 Series 1 Land Rover and by doing it this way is so much more practical over a car trailer. I miss my car trailer.

Regards Easo

P.S. Look forward to seeing it at Corowa.

Little Jo · #16 11-09-12, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by easo

More questions,

Rego, yes or no.
Club or Full.

Tight turning, does the steering still follow when conducting tight turns?

Reversing, again how does the steering behave when going backwards?

Length of A-frame, how did you decide on the right length?

Breaks, do you have a set up for brake away brakes? Does it require them?

What does a Jeep Weigh?

Reason I ask, I have a 1957 Series 1 Land Rover and by doing it this way is so much more practical over a car trailer. I miss my car trailer.

Regards Easo

P.S. Look forward to seeing it at Corowa.

Hi Easo

I obtained a copy of the Department of Transport Fact Sheet governing the legal requirements for "A" Frame towing. This explained to me all I had to do. I gave a copy of the fact sheet to a local Trailer Manufacturer who build the "A" Frame to the required specifications.

The fact sheet is specific about "A" Frame towing:

1. The maximum speed when towing is 100 Klm per hr.

2. The vehicle combination must be capable of turning within a 25m diameter circle.

3. Reversing with an "A" Frame coupled combination is not recommended, due to the lack of diectional control. (but not a problem)

4. Maintain a space between the combination not exceeding 2 metres. (My "A" Frame is 1.4 m. long)

5. Must be equipped with safety chains. (Mine are 8mm.)

6. Overall combination is not to exceed 19.0 metres.

7. Both towing and towed vehicled must be registered. (My Jeep is on Club Registration and I fill in the log book when being towed.)

10. I worked out a simple mechanical braking system. (See my photos at the beginning of the thread. works perfectly.)

11. They work out a 3.5:1 ratio that means if the towing vehicle is 3.5 Ton and the towed vehicle is 1 Ton and the combination does not eceed 4.5 tons no brakes are requied. also if the jeep did not weigh more than 750 Kilo then no brakes are required regardless of the weight of the towing vehicle.

I am not required to have a break away braking system as the safety chains are all that are required. I have towed the jeep at varied speeds, through hilly terrain, around roundabouts and through the busy parts of town and everything went according to plan, no problems. One thing to remember is that you must be moving for a few metres before doing a turn as it is not a good idea to do a sharp turn from a still start, as the wheels won't follow you, you must be moving.

Daily Trailer hire is becoming more expensive all the time and I do not have space to store a trailer at home. The "A" Frame solved all my problems. It is also a lot lighter to tow the Jeep than a heavy car trailer with a Jeep on it, I expect my fuel bill will now also be lighter. My Jeep weighs around 1,000 Kilo.

If you like I could forward you all the information you require. send me a PM and I will advise my email address and phone number.

Cheers

Tony

Richard Coutts-Smith · #17 12-09-12, 02:36

Curious about the differences between the States Re "A" Framing, I checked the VicRoads website, could not find anything at all. Went into the Wodonga office and they were unable to help, this question had not been asked before, and I had to actually explain what it involved.
Easo take note, the best they could offer was to ring the regional office (Benalla) on 035761 1888.
I suggest there will be some differences between what Tony can do and what is OK for Vic registered vehicles.
Rich.

Little Jo · #18 12-09-12, 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Coutts-Smith

Curious about the differences between the States Re "A" Framing, I checked the VicRoads website, could not find anything at all. Went into the Wodonga office and they were unable to help, this question had not been asked before, and I had to actually explain what it involved.
Easo take note, the best they could offer was to ring the regional office (Benalla) on 035761 1888.
I suggest there will be some differences between what Tony can do and what is OK for Vic registered vehicles.
Rich.

Hi Rich

I looked at all states "A" Frame towing Legislation when I first thought about going to "A" Frame towing and found very little difference between the states, nothing that concerned me. I also some information from the motor home caravan groups, who tow small cars behind their motor homes and who travel in all states. They have produced a do's and dont's document for their members when towing a vehicle behind their motor homes.

The document is kept in the motor home showing the variations when travelling between states, as I said there was nothing to be concerned about. The legislations were basically all the same apart from NSW RTA who require an engineer's certificate and a signed off VSI No41 report, which is a completed check list and which must be kept with the vehicle at all times after being signed of by the Engineer.

I will post a copy of the state by state comparison of requirements beween states used by the Motor Home people later tonight.

Cheers

Tony

Little Jo · #19 12-09-12, 15:22

Hi Rich and Easo

I have attached for your information showing the comparison requirements between the states.

Cheers

Tony

Philliphastings · #20 12-09-12, 16:54

Thanks for your interesting post Tony.

I have been 'A' frame towing within Western Australia for the past 12 years with absolutely no problems whatsoever in terms of legality or practicality. The only area which I have just learned was not fully compliant in that state is in regard to having the A frame stamped.

I was trained to A frame vehicles in the ARA some 30 odd years ago and the Army tend to use practical solutions.

Unfortunately my towing vehicle has recently been disposed of so I'm back to trailering.

Cheers for an interesting and useful thread

Phill

Little Jo · #21 13-09-12, 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliphastings

Thanks for your interesting post Tony.

I have been 'A' frame towing within Western Australia for the past 12 years with absolutely no problems whatsoever in terms of legality or practicality. The only area which I have just learned was not fully compliant in that state is in regard to having the A frame stamped.

I was trained to A frame vehicles in the ARA some 30 odd years ago and the Army tend to use practical solutions.

Unfortunately my towing vehicle has recently been disposed of so I'm back to trailering.

Cheers for an interesting and useful thread

Phill

Hi Phill

Good to hear there are others out there in MLU land who have also done "A" Frame towing. I am convinced there are many others who have been thinking about it, but not sure how to go about and who only needed to hear from those of us that have. It sure is a cheaper alternative to trailer hiring.

Cheers

Tony

easo · #22 13-09-12, 05:54

Thank you for the information. Its given me a fair amount of thought and now I can bring it up with the boss lady as an alternate to buying another trailer with the plus of having the Old Landie regoed again.

The only thing I can do is disconnect the rear wheel drive flanges as early rovers don't have floating axles. Might just have to remove the prop-shaft. Dunno.

I will now continue to go back and stair at your photos.

Little Jo · #23 13-09-12, 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by easo

Thank you for the information. Its given me a fair amount of thought and now I can bring it up with the boss lady as an alternate to buying another trailer with the plus of having the Old Landie regoed again.

The only thing I can do is disconnect the rear wheel drive flanges as early rovers don't have floating axles. Might just have to remove the prop-shaft. Dunno.

I will now continue to go back and stair at your photos.

Hi Easo

I am glad to be of assistance, we can have a chat by email or phone anytime and if I can be of assistance in anyway just let me know. I guess you may have to undo the drive shaft to the rear wheels, this will stop any moving parts in the transmission and transfer case saving undue wear and tear. Your series 1 Landrover brake pedal, I suspect works the same as the Jeep so it will be very simple to set up a braking system and away you go all legal.

I have a couple of long trips coming up. The Pichi Richi Troop Train Re-enactment at the end of this month and the Jamestown Air Show a couple of weeks later. I am looking forward to the trip towing my Jeep to the shows.

Cheers

Tony

easo · #24 13-09-12, 14:29

I look forward to seeing it at Corowa, I'll be there again with my Defender and ex-army workshop trailer selling junk again.

Philliphastings · #25 13-09-12, 14:32

Not junk Easo - treasure...

Cheers

Phill

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #26 14-09-12, 12:46

Tony - very well done. This thread is a brilliant, well researched discussion on the subject of A-Framing. It is obvious from the responses that confusion abounds amongst the readers and highlights the mish-mash of laws and regulations between each state. How can the authorities get this right when they couldn't even get the gauges of the various rail networks uniform.

This information collates all the factors surrounding this subject and I believe could/should become a document of public importance. With that in mind you could prepare spiral bound folders to disseminate to every state's motor vehicle department for their consideration. Whether they take any notice is up to them but it only takes one person to try and change or unify public policy.

This information is also very important to every car club and motoring federation as they would all have a need for A-Framing. The preparation of a small aide-memoire booklet could also be a consideration.

Anyway you could franchise this and call it The van Rhoda Australian Rules On A-Framing.

Bob

hrpearce · #27 14-09-12, 12:59

An interisting thread, the local highway patrol asked Kevin to remove the A fraim from the bull ba of his landcruiser while he was driving it home as the cop beleived it to be a danger to predistrants.

Little Jo · #28 14-09-12, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrpearce

An interisting thread, the local highway patrol asked Kevin to remove the A fraim from the bull ba of his landcruiser while he was driving it home as the cop beleived it to be a anger to predistrants.

Hi Robert

The South Australian Government Fact Sheet on "A" Frame towing issued by the Department for Transport. On their first page states.

" It is recommended that a copy of this Fact Sheet, together with any reports, approvals or other documents, is carried in the vehicle at all times."

I suggest this is in case you are spoken too by a member of the constabularly who may not fully know all of the legislation, you can then justifiably show you fully comply with the required Government Legislation.

It is however, not allowable to drive a vehicle with the "A" Frame attached to the vehicle when not being towed. It is classed as a hazard.

Cheers

Tony

Little Jo · #29 06-10-12, 06:12

Hi All

I wish to report that I towed my 1942 MB Willys Jeep using my new "A" Frame system on a 1000 Klm round trip to take part in the annual Pichi Richi Troop Train Re-enactment and I was very pleased with the trip. Everything went as well as I expected, I even had a Police Highway Patrol follow me for about 3 Klm before he turned off, obviously I passed the test.

Next week I will again tow the Jeep, this time to the Jamestown Ais Show where the jeep will be part of a re-enactment battle between the Allies and the Afrika Korps. Spitfires will be used straff and drop pyrotechnics, should be a good weekend.

The free Wheeling hubs and removal of the rear axles make it very easy to toww. I have no hesitation in recommending the "A" Frame system as an alternative to trailer towing, but again that is a personal choice. I certainly noticed I saved a lot of fuel.

Cheers

Tony