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  #1  
Old 25-04-12, 02:50
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John Dallimore
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mt. Albert, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 116
Default carrier axle swap

Can an axle assembly out of a CMP be installed on a carrier so that you can have hydraulic brakes? Is the gear ratio similar?

John
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  #2  
Old 25-04-12, 04:40
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,534
Default John

The answer is no. The brake back plates are carrier specific.
The Carrier ratio is 5.83:1 The CMP ratios from the F30 up, are all 7.16:1
The 5.83 diff is also found in the earlier Ford trucks particularly in the british fords with enclosed drive shafts.
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Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
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Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
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  #3  
Old 25-04-12, 07:07
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RichardT10829 RichardT10829 is offline
Richard Harrison
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cullercoats Newcastle Upon Tyne United Kingdom
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Default

Lynn, I know it would be expensive but could in theory that is, could you change the CW+P and the back plates ?
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  #4  
Old 25-04-12, 07:39
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Marc van Aalderen Marc van Aalderen is offline
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Default Why?

Hi John, why would you want to have hydraulic brakes? Just the axle is no use. You would have to build something in the front to control the brake cilinders too. That has to work is conjunction with the warp steering also. Not easy and in my opininon not worth al the trouble.

Cheers,
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Daimler Dingo Mk1B 1941
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Ford GPW British Airborne 1944
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  #5  
Old 25-04-12, 10:17
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,534
Default Richard

Yes, the back plates can be changed.
I dont know that the crown wheel and pinion can be changed.
The carrier diff has a flanged sleeve that slides into the front of the housing it has two separate back to back timken taper rollers. Most of the the CMP diffs uses a larger diameter one piece double cup with two cones, however one axle housing (f15?) probably works.

As it happens my carrier was originally built with hydraulic brakes.
This involved different back plates and drums made to use CMP brakes.
These were made in 1941. I have 3 sets. I have never seen any others.
I believe they were a bit of a failure.
Attached Thumbnails
NZ LP1 hydraulic brake.jpg  
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Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
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  #6  
Old 25-04-12, 13:45
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John Dallimore
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mt. Albert, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 116
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Marc-The reason I would like hydraulic brakes is to make mine easier to steer. I have done a few "modifications" to my carrier so it only steers with the brakes. It works, but takes a lot of effort to turn. I just thought hydraulic conversion might make life easier.

John
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  #7  
Old 25-04-12, 19:35
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
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Using brake shoes only to steer results in a lot of heat and brake fade. Even putting boosters onto the master cyls will not cure the problem. There is a reason why tracked vehicles use steering bands bathed in oil for their steering.

Disc brakes are another matter. If you modify over to those, it will be much more successful.
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  #8  
Old 25-04-12, 20:34
Jack Innes Jack Innes is offline
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Location: Brooklin, on
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[B]I have the remains of a carrier that was used for logging. It has had the springs replaced with pipes to keep the tracks on under load & it has hydraulic brakes. The driving position was moved to the rear like a buldozer. This worked well for the logger & eventually made him enough to buy a real skidder.
The down side of brake only steering is that at speed you can easily go out of control, particularly on a smooth surface.
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  #9  
Old 26-04-12, 03:31
ShawnC ShawnC is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Near Trenton Ont Canada
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Hay John, mine has this type of set up as well. Its not really what I want in steering but I will be doing a video in the next month when I take the brakes apart on the one side. It will give you a good look at how its put together. I've been told that it was changed to this.
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  #10  
Old 26-04-12, 13:25
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John Dallimore
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mt. Albert, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 116
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Jack/Shawn-Do you have any photos of the set-up or any idea what wheel cylinders were used? If you are converting yours back to the normal set-up, maybe I could find you an untouched axle and trade you.

John
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  #11  
Old 26-04-12, 15:30
Jack Innes Jack Innes is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brooklin, on
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John,

The old logging carrier wreck is at my summer home. I will not be there for a while but here is a picture that shows the backing plate & adjuster which looks to be stock carrier. I think the wheel cylinder is a standard truck part & possibly the same as used in CMP axles. It has been a long time since I examined the setup but as I recall the cylinder bolts in to the holes provided for the mechanical activator without major modification. If needed I can take more meaningful pictures the next time I am near the machine.
Attached Thumbnails
019.jpg  
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  #12  
Old 26-04-12, 17:32
Hans Mulder Hans Mulder is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Hope, B.C.
Posts: 309
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I wish my carrier still had the warp steer set up, or at least the steering band brakes. Instead, it is just the standard drum brakes and on pavement at speed, it can get hairy...
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