Ford Blitz Restoration/Rebuild

[Private_collector]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

I'm fairly sure they are a different beast to the single pulley ones with different housings and bearings.

Oh Crap! That would be right. Typical.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

A google search has not been helpful in identifying any businesses nearby (~200km will do) that can do chemical stripping of engine block and heads.

Try some hot rod shops Tony, I'm sure there'd be a few in Brissy. Those guys know flatheads inside out, unlike most engine shops who rarely see one. Plus they're doing high performance flatheads so they're very fussy about blocks - descaling water jackets, testing for cracks, sonic checking wall thickness, etc. I believe most blocks can go out to 3 5/16" if required, and even 3 3/8" sometimes, so the pitting you mention is unlikely to require re-sleeving unless it's already well oversize.

If you do give it to a hot rod shop just make sure it doesn't come back like this:

[Private_collector]

Tony,

Yes, its sure important to be thorough with the testing and rebuilding. I enquired to a couple of the hotrod shops some months ago. They were both frightening with their costing. My engine budget will amount to roughly $5000 in total, including all parts and labor. Maybe financial tough times have not hit the specialist engine rebuilders, or perhaps they are used to customers with deep pockets. Mind, that was 2 places. It is quite possible that I had chosen the two most expensive shops in Queensland. I seem to have a habit of doing that in the past.

My engine has never been rebuilt before. Thats one of the positive things about it. All piston tops show the Ford logo and STD. Engine is pretty cruddy inside the chamber beneath intake manifold, though it is all congealed oil & light dirt contamination. Engine not been worked on before, but has seen its share of neglect.

About 14 months ago, there was a really good engine on ebay. It was even reasonably close to me (maybe 2 hours away, no more). It had been rebuilt by an older mechanic, and was kept mostly stock. Naturally I didnt have the money available at that time.

[ozm29c]

Hi Tony,
My best advice to you is to give Allan or Gav Walker a ring at Jacobson's Automotive Engineering in Bundy. 07 4151 3036. They are close to you and I believe that they are well qualified to rebuild/repair your engine. BTW, Alan and Gav are well known engine rebuilders in the Aussi MV fraternity. They also organise the Bundy Amphib swim happening in June (Although I have had no word if the floods may force a cancellation this year). Do I have some connection with them , Yes, at the mo' I am having my Studebaker Weasel engine rebuilt by them (just waiting for a NOS crank out of Europe) and somehow we got to talking about Ford V8's and Alan did say that they can be very expensive to rebuild. From past experience I would steer clear of Repco Engine shops. Good for mass reconditioning but not so good on specialist one off tasks.
Good luck with your end decsion.
Cheers
John W.

[Private_collector]

Cool, thanks John.

I'll give em a ring during the week, for sure.

I would never trust REPCO for anything. I would rather go to Supacheap than Repco, and that's saying something. You know what R.E.P.C.O stands for?? Rip Every Poor.......never mind

Bundaberg is probably only a couple of hours away, and i'd rather go in that direction than into Brisbane.

[Private_collector]

After going to the effort of making a new reverse latch thingy, I found a good original one today while pulling another box selcetor set apart. All I wanted was one little spring for a selector rod ball.

It took all afternoon, but the selectors, lever and cover are now finished.

Having done that, I went on to start cleaning up the rear trans mount. The seal is to be replaced, but the rest seems to be quite OK.

The box that I pulled apart today seems to be a good candidate for use as well, so now I have a choice. I'll work on cleaning both until one shows more promise. Back to the manual for how to pull em apart.

The gear lever moves easily, but doesn't shift the forks as it should. When paint is completely dry, i'll take a look, it'll be something simple..........I hope.

[Private_collector]

John W,

I phoned that place in Bundaberg this afternoon.

Spoke with Gavin, and must say I was very impressed with the time he took to discuss my requirements. Some of the talk went a little over my head, but that is a reflection lack of knowledge on the subject.

It will now be up to me to strip the parts from the block, and I will take the stuff up to them for cleaning and initial evaluation on which parts need refurbishing or replacement. I understand they are booked for weeks in advance, but thats no problem, it will work out well.

Thankyou for sending me their contact details.

[ozm29c]

Hi Tony,
Glad to be of help.
Cheers
John W.

[Private_collector]

A couple more pieces arrived today.

So far, I have entirely failed to locate an original, and therefore correct CMP gear boot. This NOS one for a 1970s Cortina will do me just fine until the discovery happens. At least it's a Ford product

Also received these two NOS exhaust hangers. One will make a reasonable copy of an original with some reworking. The other may not get used. Depends on how close to original I want to go.

Finally, this NOS total odometer set will replace the one I have that I recovered with decals. Decals are fine if I had no choice, but this will be much more long lasting. I did a test fit on a spare speedo and they are a perfect fit.

The rear transmission mount is now fully cleaned & awaiting a replacement seal (01T-4813). I have located a source that will be supplying me two (one for a spare) for less than $25AUD. Shipping almost doubles the cost, but at total of $47AUD, that'll do me. Brand new, not NOS, these ones.

The seals were sourced from MIBearings in USA. Here is a link: http://mibearings.com/

[Jacques Reed]

Also received these two NOS exhaust hangers. One will make a reasonable copy of an original with some reworking. The other may not get used. Depends on how close to original I want to go.

This may be of interest:
Here's a photo of what I am 99% certain is the rear muffler to chassis hanger for Ford CMP trucks as I have seen the same on three vehicles this past week. Still, I have been wrong before here. I am in the process of straightening it out, but with the extremely hot weather here I do not want to fire up the "blue tongued lizard" (oxy-acetylene torch for non-Australian readers). No use scaring the neighbors!

Bending steel cold can only be done so many times before it snaps and it is not worth stuffing it up.

It mounts 6" behind the face of the transfer case cross-member in the lowest hole in the frame rail.

I am thinking it is the same dimensions, minus the bends, as the hard to find tailpipe bracket that attaches to the left rear fuel tank bracket. it is 1/16" thick, 1-1/4" wide, and 9-1/4" from the center of the clamp to the end.
Can anyone confirm if it is the same? If so, I will use it as a pattern to make that bracket.

Cheers,

[Private_collector]

G' Day Jacques,

You are 100% correct. That is the right part, according to my manual.

If you don't mind, I will save a copy of that photo you posted. Clearest photo I have seen so far.

Here's a question you may also be able to answer. Are Ford CMP transmission parts interchangable with civvy stuff of the same year. I need main shaft bearings, gaskets, throw-out bearing and clutch shaft bushes.

I disassembled the gearbox/trans this afternoon. All of the gears, shafts, and roller bearings are really good. The case got treated to a lengthy scrub and degrease. Then went over the whole thing with the twisted wire cup. Even the inspection plate and screws were good enough to use. Despite 70+ years of life, the machined parts still had near razor sharp edges on some of em. Guess how I found out? Made that discovery a number of times acutally, but did get everything real clean and ready for reassembly.

One thing I have NEVER seen for sale is the grease lubricating hose that goes to the throwout bearing. I may have to get one made, if that is even possible. I have the remains of a couple of em, but they ard strictly pattern material only.

If the gearbox case is good enough, I may get it painted tomorrow. If i'm unsure, i'll mask it off, for blasting through the week.

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Tony,

Yes, anyone is welcome to save any photo I post on MLU. All part of disseminating information to keep these vehicles alive.
The bracket sure looks like the real deal according to the parts manual, but with CMP's I've learned never to assume anything is original after 70 years of various owners!

FYI: the bend where it becomes vertical to the tailpipe is 2 7/8" from the other bend where it attaches to the chassis rail. This puts it right against the inside edge of the frame rail at that point. That, at least, locates the tailpipe end of the muffler.

Transmissions: Again 99% certain they are the same as 4 speed civilian trucks of that era. Unfortunately they are not the same as the slightly later synchronized truck gearboxes despite similar appearances. I had researched that possibility a while back but the gear case is too long unless someone wants to butcher the rear transmission cross-member to make it fit. Sorry I even suggested it!

The throwout bearing lube hose: I am sure I have seen them somewhere for sale. Will have a good look around and see if I can locate where they were and let you know. Interesting construction they are. Almost like a bathtub plug chain in the middle with a rubber coating. Strange!!!

Cheers,

[Private_collector]

Cheers Mate,

I have to remove the lubing hose from another gearbox this morning, so i'll check that out. Certainly is a strange manufacture.

I have sent an email to MIBearings in US. They are the ones I ordered the rear gearbox mount seal from. They have both the BB7025 & BB7065 bearings that I am wanting for the main shaft. If first searches are anything to go by, they seem to have a large range of bearings & seals for vintage applications.

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Tony,

Just remembered where I saw them!

Ajay's Ford Parts in NZ.

Part B 7557 B is on page 50 of their downloadable online catalogue. $18.00 NZ.

It is listed for earlier vehicles but worth a call/email to see if it is the same as used in WW2 CMP's.

I bought a few things from them many years ago when they were located in Auckland and found them to be very good.

Cheers,

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Here's a question you may also be able to answer. Are Ford CMP transmission parts interchangable with civvy stuff of the same year. I need main shaft bearings, gaskets, throw-out bearing and clutch shaft bushes.

I have sent an email to MIBearings in US. They have both the BB7025 & BB7065 bearings that I am wanting for the main shaft.

Those bearings are probably available right here in town! P/No BB7025 is a 6209 bearing while BB7065 is a 6307. Take your old bearings in to a bearing supply place so they can match the particular features of seal and circlip groove location. The bearings I used were 6209LLUC and 6307ZU1, but I think I then had to pry a rubber seal out of one side(??).

Throw out bearing is BCA 2065 (again, should be available locally or from various sources online), while the clutch shaft bushes should be available generically but I don't hve a part number. I bought mine from this seller on e-bay. (Hint: Check out his other items too!)

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

Here's a photo of what I am 99% certain is the rear muffler to chassis hanger for Ford CMP trucks...I am in the process of straightening it out...Bending steel cold can only be done so many times before it snaps...I am thinking it is the same dimensions, minus the bends, as the hard to find tailpipe bracket that attaches to the left rear fuel tank bracket. If so, I will use it as a pattern to make that bracket.

Jacques, I forgot to mention the bracket you have is off the gun tractor you were driving last week, it's definitely original, but someone had repositioned it on the chassis, which is why they've flattened out the bend. I had to remove it when I rigged up a new muffler to keep the neighbours happy! I'm sure it can be re-bent with some heat, although as you say it may be prone to cracking now, from being hammered flat when cold. I imagine there's a bit of flexing at that point during normal driving.

However we discovered I have another one on my F60S, I think you may have taken a photo. I should have taken that one off to give you, it's in perfect condition, with the remains of an original muffler by the look of it. I'll whip it off tomorrow and stick it in the mail, that way you can install it now and not worry about potential cracking. Also, as a pattern, you can get the bend position correct, and you could even flatten out the FGT one completely to get the blank dimensions correct. Not that it's critical of course, but nice to get things accurate, esp. if you're doing a drawing.

You're correct about the rearmost bracket too Jacques, I'll post some pics here shortly.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

I am thinking it is the same dimensions, minus the bends, as the hard to find tailpipe bracket that attaches to the left rear fuel tank bracket.

As you say Jacques they do seem hard to find. Not one of my vehicles has one, but surprisingly there's one on this stripped down F15A chassis. This $200 pile of blitz bits off ebay is proving to be quite handy (eagle eyes may notice 25pdr wheel on rear) but unfortunately the winch is homebuilt from a Ford axle - something I failed to detect on the ebay pic!

Anyway the bracket is clearly the same as the front one, sans bends, and possibly a bit shorter. There's also a support strap underneath, presumably to minimize flexing over rough terrain...? I imagine this piece would have been straight originally, and was possibly bent by a size 12 boot using the tailpipe as a convenient step!

I'll stick these in the mail too Jacques, you're welcome to keep them but I'll definitely need drawings eventually, unless someone stumbles on a box of NOS!

[Keith Webb]

Shame I only have one...

[Tony Wheeler]

Oops...I tried to edit my post and managed to delete it! Here it is again:

Another option for tailpipe brackets would be to bolt a replacement clamp onto the appropriate length strap. It wouldn't be perfect but it would pretty close and would save a lot of fabrication work. This mob appears to have the correct clamp (bottom left of top pic):

http://www.cgfordparts.com/wwwsectio...LAMPS/HARDWARE

Also Mac's have a bracket with the correct clamp:

http://macsautoparts.com/early-ford-...R3CHL1141416E/

Evidently there are brackets available too:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1948-1952-Fo...p2047675.l2557

Keith, your clamp is pretty close but the "correct" one is asymmetrical.

[Private_collector]

Jacques, ole pal, you are my new best friend! Thanks for posting the place to get those grease lines. I found another one here today, that I had on another spare gearbox. It looked to be in great shape, UNTIL the removal, when it crumbled to bits, like the dead sea scrolls!

Also thanks to the other Tonys! Those photos will assist me greatly. Looks like the brackets are more easily sourced than expected.

The weather today was far from ideal. I wasn't comfortable trying to continue stripping front end between rain squals. So what do you do when the rain is coming and going all day long? You paint a gearbox case, of course. At least it's kinda portable. Must have carried it in/out of the workshop about ten times in total, but it's now painted and ready for the guts to start going back in.

It will be interesting to do a comparisn of local VS overseas prices on the bearings, if I can. The results may be surprising. The seal I bought for gearbox rear is $11.50ish. I bought two. Adding the shipping cost still has them landed here for under $50.00.

When it comes time to put all the bits back together again, I hope the roughly two dozen photos I took of the disassembly go in my favor. Couldn't hoit!

[Private_collector]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

I bought mine from this seller on e-bay. (Hint: Check out his other items too!)

G'Day Tony!

I shop with Century as well. They were my choice for some of the little bits, including the clutch shaft bushes. I will also order some of the lock-wire. I went to EVERY auto shop and mechanical supplies in Gympie on Saturday, and NO ONE has this wire. REPCO & Autobarn staff didn't even know what it was. Goes to show that shop is only as good as the person you talk to on the day.

ADDED 20:40hrs
I have now ordered those bushes, and quite a few other small bits too. I also asked if their 7025 & 7065 bearings will suit the 4 speed box. I have been caught out before with correct part nos. that were a different size. Even where the prefixes were same!

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Looks like the brackets are more easily sourced than expected.

Yes, after searching the net I don't think they're worth fabricating, so there's probably not much point making drawings - which is good news for Jacques!

Closest I've found is this $30 kit which contains 3 brackets, all of which could be used with minimal modification and be undetectable as non-original:

http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb....Z5Z5Z50000019A

Mac's have the same kit:

http://macsautoparts.com/ford-pickup...0R3CHL1143645/

Jacques, I imagine these brand new brackets may change your plans a bit so I'll leave the old rusty ones where they are for the moment!

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

Yes, after searching the net I don't think they're worth fabricating, so there's probably not much point making drawings - which is good news for Jacques!

Closest I've found is this $30 kit which contains 3 brackets, all of which could be used with minimal modification and be undetectable as non-original:

Jacques, I imagine these brand new brackets may change your plans a bit so I'll leave the old rusty ones where they are for the moment!

Hi Tony,

Thanks for your information. I did buy a Dennis Carpenter exhaust bracket set a while back but there was not enough length on the longest one to make the bracket that attaches to the fuel tank bracket as shown in the photo.
Yes, thought about the adding a length of flat bar to an existing clamp in the set but forgot about the asymmetrical design too. Good spotting. The set did give up a good old design 2" muffler clamp when I wiggled the poorly spot welded clip attached to it shown in the centre of the photo. Thank God for Dennis Carpenter's poor Chinese made stuff. Saved drilling out a spot weld!

Will check out the supplier mentioned.

When you get a chance Tony would you be kind enough to give me the dimension between the centre of the bolt hole on the clamp to the centre of the first hole where it attaches to the fuel tank bracket then I can work out the length and see if their bracket will do the job. Many thanks again for all your help and a great afternoon with the trucks.

Cheers,

[Tony Wheeler]

Hi Jacques,

Attached pics show rear tailpipe bracket dimensions as measured in situ, I'll need to remove and straighten it for complete accuracy. I'm pretty sure your Dennis Carpenter bracket will reach the first hole in the petrol tank bracket, and the hole for the rubber mount may be conveniently close to the correct location. Clearly it will need to be extended to reach the second hole, which means butt welding a piece of 1 1/4" strap to the end. The support strap will prevent any flexing at the join so it shouldn't fail. They could even be spot welded together for complete confidence.

The front tailpipe bracket is the offset clamp type, of which there are 3 in the Mac's 48-52 Pickup set. These are considerably longer and will reach the chassis rail, but will still need to be extended to bolt in the original hole. This would have to be an overlap join as there's no support strap, however it would be inside the chassis rail where it wouldn't be seen.

I think that's the solution for tailpipe brackets, clearly it's not worth trying to fabricate new ones when these items from Mac's can be easily modified. The required kits are:

Ford CMP front tailpipe bracket (48-52 Pickup set): http://macsautoparts.com/ford-pickup...0R3CHL1143645/

Ford CMP rear tailpipe bracket (35-38 Pickup set): http://macsautoparts.com/early-ford-...R3CHL1141416E/

I've ordered both sets and will test these mods when they arrive and post results here for general info.

Of course, the 48-52 Pickup set will serve for both brackets, the only difference being the offset clamp on the rear, which is hardly likely to be noticed. After all, we didn't even know there were two types until today!

[Private_collector]

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

Attached pics show rear tailpipe bracket dimensions as measured in situ,

I think that's the solution for tailpipe brackets, clearly it's not worth trying to fabricate new ones when these items from Mac's can be easily modified.

Hi Tony,

Again, thanks for you great help and good suggestions. In the interim I will go using one of my Dennis Carpenter brackets welded to a flat strip to make the tailpipe bracket that attaches to the fuel tank bracket. It will look reasonable and position it in the right location anyway thanks also to the dimensions you supplied.

May scratch build that bracket later when I get the urge to do a bit of metal working. Should be relatively easy as the original brackets are made of lighter gauge steel than the Dennis Carpenter repro's.

Cheers.

[Private_collector]

Yesterday I called into the local bearing shop, and asked about the BB7025 & BB7065 bearings I want for the gearbox MDG shaft. In the past, these fellows have managed to find what I need........usually. To be quite frank, I expected the standard search on computer, followed by further enquiries via phone to their suppliers, over a period of days. Sometimes it's fruitful, sometimes not. When I gave the part numbers yesterday, they checked the computer then walked away to the back room.............and came back with both bearings!

Now, these modern bearings are shielded each side, which the guys indicated would provide better protection against oil leaking past the bearings and out along the shafts. Sounds good! Anything that keeps me from having to look at future oil stains is alright by me.

Now to the price comparison. My enquiries overseas resulted in a quote for the two bearings at $35.00 each, plus $30.00 in postage. Hmmmmmm! The quote from Gympie Bearing Service was just a little better, at $30.00................FOR THE PAIR!No postage there. They didn't have a throwout bearing in stock, but put an order in yesterday afternoon. It was ready for me to pickup after 0900hrs today. It cost $22.00. That's a grand total of $52.00 for the three bearings. On this occasion, local was considerably cheaper and quicker. When you're wrong, you're wrong! In this instance I nearly dismissed the local guys as too dear to bother with. As I say, when you're wrong, you're wrong.

I will be reassembling most of the box this weekend. Will still be waiting on new bushes, MDG shaft clip, locking wire and the rear seal, but majority of the work will get done, with several cardboard tags hanging to remind me what still needs to be done. Not heard back from Ajays in NZ yet, regarding the grease hose to throwout bearing. It is now only needed to lube the shaft for throwout assembly to move on. The bearing itself is sealed, unlike the original which was also lubed via the hose.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Those bearings are probably available right here in town! P/No BB7025 is a 6209 bearing while BB7065 is a 6307. Take your old bearings in to a bearing supply place so they can match the particular features of seal and circlip groove location. The bearings I used were 6209LLUC and 6307ZU1, but I think I then had to pry a rubber seal out of one side(??).

Throw out bearing is BCA 2065 (again, should be available locally or from various sources online), while the clutch shaft bushes should be available generically but I don't hve a part number. I bought mine from this seller on e-bay.

Well done! Do those bearings have the retaining groove and clip around the outside?

Seeing as you've now got such a good relationship with your local bearing shop, when the clutch release shaft bushes arrive from Century, before you fit them, take them into the bearing shop and see if they can assign a current part number for them. I realise US$10pr is pretty fairly priced, but you never know if it can be beat. Having a brand and number would be a good start. I had a set many years ago that I think were either Federal Mogul or TRW, but I've long forgotten the number.

[Private_collector]

Tony,

Will do with the bushes.

The MDG bearings don't have a groove for a clip. The originals didn't either.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

these modern bearings are shielded each side, which the guys indicated would provide better protection against oil leaking past the bearings and out along the shafts.

Just out of curiosity - which is preferable, sealed or unsealed? Personally I like the idea of oil sloshing around bearings - partly for confidence in their lubrication, but also for cooling. However I imagine the seal would keep out those iron filings these gearboxes seem to generate so much of! Then again, the original bearings seem to last pretty well.