Engine replacement

[Markwin Serlui]

Hello All,

I have a C15a which is outfitted with a perkins diesel engine.
I am thinking of replacing it with a petrol engine.
What would be a good source to look for one?
And what kind of engine should i be looking for?
thanks!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Markwin,

How about a GMC 270 cid engine out of a GMC CCKW truck? They can be fairly easily bought in Holland.

H.

[Bob Carriere]

The 270 engine family is longer than the 216/235/261 GM engines and will require cab/frame modification....... not impossible but not as easy as a shorter GM block.

Cheers

[Hanno Spoelstra]

I know Bob, but they are relatively plentiful here, rather than the Chev engines. Since Markwin's Chev is already converted with a Perkins diesel, the GMC 270 may fit without a lot of conversion work.

[Bob Carriere]

How the Perkins was fitted..... and what was required.

The 270/292 usually require moving the radiator forward as it should bolt right up to the CMP tranny.

Cheers

[Markwin Serlui]

Ouch...i was hoping a cckw engine would fit like Hanno said...

[Grant Bowker]

If you have somebody local who has a C60X, you will be able to study how General Motors did the design work to put a 270 CI GMC motor into a CMP frame. They did have to use different rear motor mounts, different mounts for the radiator and extend the grille about one inch. There were probably many other small changes as well.

[Alex van de Wetering]

The bare block of a 270 is about 72cm long, while the 216 sits at about 68,4cm., so little over an inch longer, which resulted in the 1inch grill spacer on the C60X as Grant mentioned.

But, maybe a 235? 235's do pop op on the Dutch markplaats website. You probably need to change a few things to make it work on right hand drive(?).

Or maybe a Bedford engine? they seem to be quite similar in design.

Alex

[Grant Bowker]

The early 235 is a simple replacement, nothing to change.
The later (about 1953 onward) 235 and 261 Chevrolet engines are the same physical size as the 216, fit very well, but usually need an adapter plate and an earlier water pump to make the fan placement correct relative to the radiator. These are simple bolt on changes. The CMP flywheel housing and clutch bolt to the rear of the engine without problem. Some late engines do not use the front mount like the 216 but use 2 side front mounts. This can be changed without great difficulty although you may have to remove the front timing cover and parts to get to the front mounting plate (the plate is the same shape but may not have the holes in place for the front mount as used on the 216).

[Maurice Donckers]

It is not so difficult to find a WW2 block , but they are usualy ready for a rebuild . I can point you in a direction to find one , also valves, Guides ,con rods with casted in bearings are plenyfull available , even Cam shafts and Crankshafts are available , write me a mail and I can help.

[Markwin Serlui]

Just did Maurice

[Markwin Serlui]

Ik might be able to get a chevy 216 engine or a 235.
Would that be any good?
Both need reconditioning...

[Bob Carriere]

For purist accurate restoration go for the 216....

For ease of rebuilding. more power and fun of driving go for the 235.

Cheers

[motto]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

For purist accurate restoration go for the 216....

For ease of rebuilding. more power and fun of driving go for the 235.

Which 235 are you referring to Bob? There would be little difference between rebuilding a 216 and a first series (WW2) 235 as many parts interchange and construction is identical.

David

[Phil Waterman]

Originally Posted by motto

Which 235 are you referring to Bob? There would be little difference between rebuilding a 216 and a first series (WW2) 235 as many parts interchange and construction is identical.

Hi Dave

Good point, people definitely want to look for the later 235 with better lubrication system.

But if all you can find is the early 235 and the price is right it is better than nothing, by a long shot.

Cheers Phil

[Markwin Serlui]

Hi,

Thanks for the input!

[George McKenzie]

I changed a 216 to a 235 and i had to move the rad .I think the water pump was the problem and not the block it self

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by George McKenzie

I changed a 216 to a 235 and i had to move the rad .I think the water pump was the problem and not the block it self

Hello Markwin, George and Others,

I have a 216 that I was told had seen better days before the whole vehicle came home after I originally bought it in another town about five hours drive away from me. So I went ahead and bought a fully pressurised oiling "Blue Flame" 235.

I also did some research about the issue of the 235 water pump being too long. From memory one of the USA Old Chevrolet parts suppliers provide a compact version of the 235 water pump so the radiator does not need to be moved. It is sold by Bowtie Bits http://www.bowtiebits.com/store/stor...Category_ID=36 I have no connection to the retailer or the manufacturer.

After a quick online check I found a different supplier who makes an adaptor available on eBay - I have no connection to the seller. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-1962-CH...4eyFBg&vxp=mtr.

See there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Bob Carriere]

For the record when I say 235 cu. in. engine I mean a full oil pressure block.

The 235 will fit and bolt right in BUT...... the water pump is the issue.

first you need the extra clearance near the front / rad location....

second issue is the 235 water pump installed inside the face of the 235 block is TOO low in relationship to the radiator and reduces cooling efficiency.

The best solution is to install a 216 water pump using the $40 dollarsadapter plate available on EBay. It allows the external 216 pump to be mounted on the 235 at a higher location more centred on the radiator face and gives you the clearance needed. The scary part for a lot of rebuilders is that the adapter plate requires to drill a couple of holes in the block face and tap them....... with care it can be done quite safely...... and it is far easier to do if the engine block is outside the truck.

Once the process is done, it is neat and professional looking and only a very well informed observer would notice the difference.

Bob C.

[Grant Bowker]

Like Bob, I have used the adapter plate approach. The ebay plate does require the use of a 1942 or later water pump (originally had 2 holes through the pump backing plate into the block) rather than the earlier pump (that had 1 hole through the plate into the block). Their instructions clearly state this and are also clear that the pulley sizes must match to keep the speed ratios correct. I wanted to use the older 1 hole style pump so made my own adapter plate. You do need to use more care with the orientation of bolt heads to avoid conflict with the 1 hole design but it can be done

[Jim Burrill]

My first CMP was a C-15A with a 216. Myfirst outing with it was to a winter reeanctment weekend. Drove it the 70 miles each way. On the way home - on freeway, in 4th and screaming at 40 MPH, the No1 piston went out the side of the block.

Later learned about the splash oiling, and why a steady smooth road kept the oil from splashing as much as it needed.

I found in a junk yard a 1954 235 block. Just dumb luck that it was the two years that the 216 water pump parts would bolt right up to a 235 block with no need for adaptors.

Rebuilt the 235 and installed it with no problem. Intalled it about 5 times, before I realized I had the clutch plate reversed!

Would go in and get about 1/2 inch from joining up...

ANyway, after that was sorted, the rest was simple spanner turning and it ran great.

[Frantisek Nachlinger]

I am thinking about findinag a 235 engine for our C8As and a C60S wrecker, I do not know much about those engine yet, when I was searching ebay I found "long block and "short block" ones, which ones are the ones?
Thank you,
Frankie

[Bob Carriere]

Both engine are the same size......in machine shop terminology it usually means......

Short block..... is the engine block, pistons, crank and cam shaft and timing gear with cover....... nothing else is included....

Long block...... same as above BUT it includes the installed head(s) and valve train and usually includes the valve cover and oil pan, oil pump...... DOES NOT INCLUDE intake/exhaust manifold , carburator, water pump, distributor, generator, pulleys,


A full "drop in" would be an engine that has all the accessories attached ready to be bolted in and run.......

Good luck

Cheers

[Frantisek Nachlinger]

Thank you, Bob! I hope I'll find few good ones

[Frantisek Nachlinger]

I have recieved 2 running complete 235s last week. Looking forward to convert the pumps and make the canadian beasts move again! Will post pics
Frankie

[Bob Carriere]

Make sure you have each engine serial number checked to identify the year of manufacture ....... have you been reading the "tech tips" on the Stovebolt forum......... lots of precious information on that forum.

Have you checked the front plates behind the harmonic balancer for the two engine mounting holes??

Looking forward for the pics!!

Cheers

[Frantisek Nachlinger]

I haven't read anything. Will do it ASAP. Too late, probably