Track Pins

[Philliphastings]

Hi guys,

Does anyone have a source of british track pins and washers ?

I bought some NOS T16 carrier track pins off Ebay a while ago but they didn't seem long enough. I'm looking for the joint pins with clearance for washer and split pin.

Any leads appreciated

Cheers

Phill

[kevin powles]

hi phil, I bought some of those track pins which are a little to short but they are ideal for welding a washer on the end, I done a trial 21 section with washers welded on and built up the centre of the washer with weld so they looked like the real deal, Done over 4 miles on them with no problems.

kevin.

[Philliphastings]

Hi Kevin,

Yes I can do that if need be with the weld on the inside perhaps.
I would still like to find some of the correct pins even perhaps part worn serviceable ones as the tracks I have aren't completely factory fresh.

Cheers

Phill

[shaun]

Phil,
A word to the wise, always put your track pins in with the fixed head IE the manufactured head on the inside of the track. The reason for this is if the washer or split pin breaks off the pin moves inwards and hits the hull creating a "TAP" every time that link/pin goes round and there for warning the driver you have a pin on the move. if it were the other way round the pin would just fall out with out warning , with the result of no track = no brakes - no steering - NO FUN !!!

This system does work , i had a pin on the move on a long run and it started to "TAP" . believe me you will hear it.

[tankbarrell]

Some Soviet tanks use that as the only method of pin retention, there being a small ramp on the hull to nudge it back in to place.

[RichardT10829]

i was going to pipe up but Shaun beat me to it... it would be suicide to put them in the other way in my humble opinion

[Hans Mulder]

Ooops... I have all mine with the cotter pins/washers on the inside... I was thinking it looked goofy with the hardware visible...

[Edwin Wand]

Some comments in this thread raise questions about whether some present day carrier owners and drivers know how to drive a carrier well enough to live to tell about it. For what its worth, the following comments may be helpful and are based on what we where taught and on our own post war operational experience. My principle instructor was the late Staff Sgt Len Long (RCR). He was the finest carrier man that I ever met. He drove carriers from Dunkirk, as part of the Cdn advance party, through Italy to North West Europe. He was a good soldier and a good man. I hope you will find the following suggestions useful (Most of them came from Len and were not always given as gently as we might have wished). Of course, all was forgiven by the time we reached the mess.


Driver and CoDriver: When moving the carrier, dont let the co-driver sit down. Some people will incorrectly tell you it is a matter of safety and the codriver should always sit down when the carrier is in motion. The reality is that the codriver's job is to be the driver's eyes. The driver has a very limited field of vision and safe movement requires the co driver and driver to work together. If there is a movements controller on the ground, so much the better.

Steering: The vehicle turns when the driver turns the steering wheel and in so doing applies the steering brakes to the appropriate track. The brakes are mechanical and if a very sharp turn is immediately required, the driver might not be able to supply enough force to the steering wheel to turn the machine. In such cases the co driver should assist the driver by helping him turn the wheel.

If you are in danger of sliding sideways into the ditch, it may be better to turn the vehicle to a sharp right angle. This is where the codriver helping to turn the wheel could literally be a lifesaver. Better to go straight ahead under power than to slide sideways with only gravity controlling the direction being taken.

If you lose a track or for what ever other reason, you are about to overturn. DONT JUMP. Ride the vehicle. You cant jump faster than the carrier can turn. Jumping and getting caught across the waist by an overturning carrier is an unpleasant way to die.

Not infrequently, new inexperienced drivers can be seen showing the local girls and other appreciative bystanders how sharply the carrier can turn. Well yes it can turn and with the added strain the turning produces, it can also throw a track and either spin or turn over. Unfortunately, in these cases, the driver doesnt have a choice about whether the machine spins or turns over. Remember, these machines are seventy years old and unlike people need to be treated with respect.

Danger to rear passengers: In the summer time, the engine covers are often removed to keep the engine from overheating. If people are in the rear, be careful. Serious burns can result from being bounced into the engine or you can get serious cuts if you bounce into the fan blades.

Winter engine starting often requires the use of ether, gas etc. Be careful.

Tracks pins: The cotter pins are on the outside. Given the age of the pins, I would try to replace them. Even when they were operational, broken pins, crystalled pins etc were an ever present danger. If you were lucky you would hear a broken pin slapping on the side of the body. More often the pin would shatter and a part of the pin would come out on the body side and part on the outside. Unless the broken pin was fairly long, it would drop to the road with no noise. Recall the engine is very loud and if you are going cross country on a crash action, you are unlikley to hear a broken pin hitting the body.

If you need to stop in a hurry, depress both the clutch and the brake pedal. Let the weight of the machine and the brakes stop it. Dont waste time trying to get it out of gear etc.

First parade, halt parade, last parade and any other time you stop, always, always check the pins.

Track Adjustment: You should be able to put your hand, held vertically, into the space between the track and the inside top of the body. Too loose or too tight you can lose a track. Learn how to adjust the tracks and check their adjustment at least daily

The Universal/Bren Gun Carrier is a wonderful machine and today`s owners and drivers can really enjoy themselves. But, please remember, they are not toys and need to be treated with the greatest respect.

They were used everywhere that the Commonwealth Forces fought. These machines and their crews accomplished truly amazing feats of bravery and none of us should ever forget the contribution these men and their machines made to victory.

[Philliphastings]

Still looking for correct pins to fit to my museum only restoration...

Thanks

Phill

[Jon Bradshaw]

So I have a T16, and the previous owner removed (cut) all the track pins out and I got a pile of links. I was wondering if there was anything special about the pins construction? Are they made out of mild steel or more unlikely tempered/ hardened steel. As I said I have none so now need to make about 360 of them. Any suggestions on sourcing data on length, thickness and grade of steel would be appreciated. I have a few from a universal but they are in terribly worn shape. This makes me think they are probably made the same, simple mild steel?

[RichardT10829]

Pins are chromoly steel I think, if you do a search there has been discussions about them,,,, don't be tempted to use stainless.

[Stew Robertson]

The pins are a hardened tool steel pin at 52 RC if you want to tighten up your old worn track, ream the track holes to 12m.m. and have new pins made to 12 m.m. ? Brand new Track! and no hassel of looking for track

[RichardT10829]

Will that not considerably weaken the lugs nthe links ?

[Marc van Aalderen]

Originally Posted by Stew Robertson

The pins are a hardened tool steel pin at 52 RC if you want to tighten up your old worn track, ream the track holes to 10 m.m. and have new pins made to 10 m.m. ? Brand new Track! and no hassel of looking for track

Stew, due to the warp steering there must be play on the pins and track links. Otherwise the tracks can't bend. Track pin analysis included.



Cheers,

[kevin powles]

Originally Posted by Stew Robertson

The pins are a hardened tool steel pin at 52 RC if you want to tighten up your old worn track, ream the track holes to 10 m.m. and have new pins made to 10 m.m. ? Brand new Track! and no hassel of looking for track

Stew, Carrier track pins are 7/16" 11.1125mm. I dont have any specifications on hole clearance dimensions.

kevin.

[Rob Beale]

I have made a few using 4140 steel shaft.

(Manawatu boys told me this years ago).

I knocked a pair of these pins out at the Wairarapa Airshow last month to adjust the brakes. They were fitted probably 10 years ago, and have worked fine to date.
Note these are for a LP2, so are plain shaft with lead plug retainers.
Rivetted pins will need heads welded on as described above.

Another long time carrier owner from the Manawatu told me of trying to ream out track to 12 mm diameter, and how hard the links were.
Maybe just fitting new pins will make an old track serviceable?
I have seen pins worn with a stepped shape, so new pins will take up a lot of slack when multiplied by 168 (or 176 on an LP2)

Rob

[Stew Robertson]

Sorry wrong mm should have been 12 MM
the difference is only.035 in which will not weaken the track and will still steer that is on .016 thou per side which is 2 red hairs Not big deal
the tracks are probably worn that much or more and you will have sufficent clearance for steering
The track will still warp with a few thou clearance

[Lynn Eades]

As Kevin has said, A standard track pin is 7/16" = 0.4375" = 11.11mm.
For most of you, to fit new pins made of 4140 at 7/16 dia. that is probably as good as it gets.
If your track is that worn that an oversize pin is needed, its probably too dangerous to use, as you risk the breakage of the link.
Think for a moment about what happens when you loose a track at speed, or on a steep hill.

[Lynn Eades]

a picture to consider

[Marc van Aalderen]

Eventually we will have to look into getting links cast and pins fabricated. More Carriers emerge from the woods, literally, and are without tracks or have completely worn out tracks. Most of these woodlogging carriers were worked hard I imagine till some expensive or hard to find part finally gave in and then they were left to rot. I once looked at one of those and counted just 153 links in the tracks. That is 4 less then what the Army considered worn out!!

I use my carrier regularly and will wear out the tracks one day, same as most of us who use it as what it was made for and not as a static display piece...
With worn tracks it will end as just that!

Cheers,

[The Bedford Boys]

Originally Posted by Rob Beale

I have made a few using 4140 steel shaft.

(Manawatu boys told me this years ago).

I knocked a pair of these pins out at the Wairarapa Airshow last month to adjust the brakes. They were fitted probably 10 years ago, and have worked fine to date.
Note these are for a LP2, so are plain shaft with lead plug retainers.
Rivetted pins will need heads welded on as described above.

Another long time carrier owner from the Manawatu told me of trying to ream out track to 12 mm diameter, and how hard the links were.
Maybe just fitting new pins will make an old track serviceable?
I have seen pins worn with a stepped shape, so new pins will take up a lot of slack when multiplied by 168 (or 176 on an LP2)

Rob

You can also just heat the end of the pin and peen it to form the 'rivet' style head. Just don't quench it or it'll go brittle and the 'head' pops off when in use. If you want to fit oversize pins, you'll go through a few drills due to the make up of the track links, but it can be done. Bloke from around here has done it successfully.

[The Bedford Boys]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

a picture to consider

Lynn, is this a photo of a carrier from down this way that was finished just recently?

[Lynn Eades]

No, not Lews. This was Davids, at MOTATS carrier day.

[The Bedford Boys]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

No, not Lews. This was Davids, at MOTATS carrier day.

I was thinking more along the lines of our largest carrier manufacturer in the Manawatu currently.

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

Originally Posted by Marc van Aalderen

Eventually we will have to look into getting links cast and pins fabricated. More Carriers emerge from the woods, literally, and are without tracks or have completely worn out tracks. Most of these woodlogging carriers were worked hard I imagine till some expensive or hard to find part finally gave in and then they were left to rot. I once looked at one of those and counted just 153 links in the tracks. That is 4 less then what the Army considered worn out!!

I use my carrier regularly and will wear out the tracks one day, same as most of us who use it as what it was made for and not as a static display piece...
With worn tracks it will end as just that!

Cheers,

Hello Marc,

Here the same, the tracks will wear out, casting new links should not be that expensive, when the numbers are high enough. There was someone on the forum who has spend some time in looking for casting new links.

Cheers

Hendrik

[Lynn Eades]

His resources, along with his standards, mean that you would never see a carrier of his with track as bad as that.

[Stew Robertson]

How many miles are you guys going to drive these carrieres? I have rebuilt n more carrier track than most have you have seen Ream the F**^ ING HOLE OUT AAND PUT NEW PINS IN> THE STREERING WILL WORK AS IT WAS INTENDED ! if you don,t wan't to listen that is fine it is your carrier and your money...

[peter simundson]

....settle down Stew....this isn't good for your heart.

A guy your age shouldn't get so upset.

Hee Hee Hee

Peter S

[SDeMocko]

I took a carrier pin to work where we have a scanner that is supposed to be able to tell what kind of material something is made from. See the attached pic, something called 3115. I am not sure if this helps or fuel the controversy.

Stephen
'44 MKII
Orange County, CA, USA

[RichardT10829]

Nice work Stephen..... As Marc said earlier I can vouch for the ex log skidder carriers being worked to death as mine was one....160 links per side on mine but they a shot to bits... They lean heavily towards the diff, or did when they were last on, I am busy working with a local engineering firm to work around re using worn out track to see if we can build a sacrificial lug something along the lines of drilling out and tapping the original material then screwing in a sacrificial core for the pin to slide through....then when that wears out you just replace the cores. From the outside the track looks as it should... There are a plethora of hurdles to overcome though but the chap is a clever bloke so I am sure he will come up with something.