MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > GENERAL WW2 TOPICS > The MLU Sappers Mess

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old 13-07-07, 01:44
Richard Farrant's Avatar
Richard Farrant Richard Farrant is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 3,424
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Les Freathy
what is the load in the back of the Morris
Les,

The load looks like kapok bouyancy rafts (maybe not the correct term for them, though)
__________________
Richard

1943 Bedford QLD lorry - 1941 BSA WM20 m/cycle - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk2
MVT, IMPS member, AMVCS hon. member and Newsletter Editor
KVE President & KVE News Editor
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 14-07-07, 01:54
Les Freathy Les Freathy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: kent england
Posts: 1,284
Default

Yes i was thinking along those lines Richard, i will be at the show on thursday
cheers
Les
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 14-07-07, 02:25
Richard Farrant's Avatar
Richard Farrant Richard Farrant is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 3,424
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Les Freathy
, i will be at the show on thursday
cheers
Les
Les,

Might see you about then.
__________________
Richard

1943 Bedford QLD lorry - 1941 BSA WM20 m/cycle - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk2
MVT, IMPS member, AMVCS hon. member and Newsletter Editor
KVE President & KVE News Editor
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 23-07-07, 13:57
Les Freathy Les Freathy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: kent england
Posts: 1,284
Default

another for the bridging thread
Les
Attached Thumbnails
mlu1.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 24-07-07, 15:30
David Potter David Potter is offline
Bailey Bridges & FBE
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: France
Posts: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Les Freathy
another for the bridging thread
Les
Hi Les,

Looks like you have the same FBE Mk III handbook (1941) as me! I have already posted loading diagrams (was it here or on David Hayward's Mystery WD truck thread?) Plate XII c & d.

Another interesting area in this handbook is the temporary loading diagrams (Plate XII a & b) and photos (Plate XVII & XVIII) using FBE Mk II lorries and trailers; have you ever seen any "in service" photographs that confirm this loading? I can scan and post these images if anyone is interested (same for FBE III loading diagrams).

David

Last edited by David Potter; 24-07-07 at 19:06.
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 24-07-07, 15:47
David Potter David Potter is offline
Bailey Bridges & FBE
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: France
Posts: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Les Freathy
David P what is the load in the back of the Morris
cheers
Les
Hi Les,

Richard F quite accurately described the load as kapok rafts; here is a more complete description of kapok system.

David


The basic kapok bridge was an Infantry Assault Bridge but the equipment could be used for a variety of roles.

Infantry Assault Bridge
6'6" long kapok filled floats supported a wooden walkway.
Decking was 6'6" long and 1'10.5" wide
Each bay weighs 1cwt.

Attachment, Carrier Flotation, Kapok MkI & MkII
Kapok floats together with special fittings could also be used to float a carrier.
MkI designed for Universal Carrier MkI
MkII could be fitted to all carriers except the T16
8x brackets were clamped to the carrier, 2x front, rear and each side. THese carried kapok floats fastened by chains. 9x kapok floats were used; 3 vertical at the front, 2 vertical on each side and 2 horizontal at the rear.

Raft for 15cwt truck
It is possible to coonstruct a raft to carry light vehicles including 15cwt. These use kapok floats lashed together and trackways of walkway. Loading the raft is difficult and the lack of rigidity can be a problem.
27x floats are lashed together in three layers.
8x walkways are lashed over the floats to form two trackways.
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 24-07-07, 18:23
David Potter David Potter is offline
Bailey Bridges & FBE
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: France
Posts: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Les Freathy
David P what is the load in the back of the Morris
cheers
Les
Hi Les,

This photo (V6555) is in same sequence.

Official caption:

"Testing MkII version of FBE Raft. The lorry is loaded with the latest version of the Kapok Raft equipment".

David
Attached Thumbnails
v6555.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 24-07-07, 18:54
David Potter David Potter is offline
Bailey Bridges & FBE
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: France
Posts: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Les Freathy
Still cant sort out that last problem so its kicked into touch. Now heres a interesting item, about 15 years ago i put this photo into a model mag to find out more details we all came to the conclusion that it was bridging but never resolved the full purpose of strapping complete large sections in this way. One it must have been rather out of balance whilst travelling, think of the roads in Europe at that time, for obvious reasons its better to go up rather than flat the width would have been totally restrictive and upwards as can be seen would foul bridges, trees, arches etc
comments welcome
Les
Les, Noel & any other interested parties!

I still think we are looking at SBG in one form or another. The section issue raised by Noel can be explained that these are tapered hornbeam sections (you can see that furthest section gets deeper towards front of trailer).

In defence of original idea that it was for AVRE SBG Assault Bridge are:
a) Lack of centre decking (as in MkII AVRE bridge)
b) Tow bar / A frame for Towed SBG Assault Bridge (although recent examination of drawings shows towing eye attached to bakseat!)

Latest theory!

Kastentrager-Gerat : German copy of SBG!

"In the mid 1930's the German Army copied the design of the SBG almost exactly, calling their bridge the Kastentrager-Gerat, literally the bow girder equipment. The K-Gerat used the same panel length as the SBG, but slightly ammended the bracing details. A 1943 article in the German magazine Military Engineer describes the bridge being used on the Russian front in conjunction with pontoons and goes on to say that 'the bridge has given good service and is similar to bridges used in enemy armies'. Its use prompted an instruction in a Royal Engineers Training Memorandum of the same year to the effect that, although the SBG MkIII was by then obsolete in the British Army, training with SBG should occasionally continue to enable units to utilize captured enemy equipment" (One More River to Cross, Col. JH Joiner)

Reasoning behind this is that the trailer looks more German than British! (Just waiting for someone to prove me wrong there!) Attached is a (poor) image of Engineer Vehicle 11 (Pf.11), Pontoon Wagon (D600) which has similar mudguards and belly locker.

OK so that is my tuppenceworth on this subject! Oh, still can't find ID for AoS 16, plate does look more British than German.... now if I could see AoS on Scammell in the background.........

All for now

David
Attached Thumbnails
pf11.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 03-12-07, 00:59
Les Freathy Les Freathy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: kent england
Posts: 1,284
Default

Interesting photo of a ferry on excercise inthe UK, note the power source for the ferry i presume the jeep has enough power to move the 28 ton tank plus the ferry. i am aware that small things can make even bigger ones move in water but this must have been slow
cheers
Les
Attached Thumbnails
mlu1.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 03-12-07, 01:01
Les Freathy Les Freathy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: kent england
Posts: 1,284
Default

A shot of the Churchill bridge, any one care to identify the van, it looks French to me
Les
Attached Thumbnails
mlu2.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 05-03-08, 16:24
Les Freathy Les Freathy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: kent england
Posts: 1,284
Default

Glad to see the threads have been moved from the old sites, so to continue the bridging heres a rare shot of British engineers operating two lifting dericks both being driven by the Chicago compressor of i would guess between 4 and500 CFM
Attached Thumbnails
mlu1.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 03-05-08, 23:54
Noel Burgess Noel Burgess is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Teesside, NE England
Posts: 211
Default

I have already referred to http://cgsc.leavenworth.army.mil/car...entdm/home.htm twice today - this is just a quick post to say that the "Obsolete Manuals " section includes "Ponton Manual 1917"
Noel
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 08-09-10, 22:22
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 11,314
Default

Surviving folding boat, pictures courtesy of Martin van de Poel
Attached Thumbnails
stormboat CDN_0016x.jpg   stormboat CDN_0004x.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 24-11-10, 00:04
Spider Spider is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Essex England
Posts: 1
Default

I have been viewing the developments of this thread for a while now as well as doing some of my own research. I have found an Italian site with quite a bit of information on folding boat equipment.
http://freeforumzone.leonardo.it/dis...px?idd=1554266
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 24-11-10, 03:59
Alex Blair (RIP) Alex Blair (RIP) is offline
"Mr. Manual", sadly no longer with us
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa ,Canada
Posts: 2,917
Default '37 Dodge 1 ton van..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Freathy View Post
A shot of the Churchill bridge, any one care to identify the van, it looks French to me
Les
Les

It looks like a '37 Dodge one ton van..
The wheels and that big chrome strip down the center of the grill give it away..
Here is a 1/2 ton civilian version.

http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/d/37...ickup2_NAC.jpg
And another here

http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/d/37...up_Carsnet.jpg

Check out the wheels and grill on this '36..

http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/d/36...yl3spd_CCT.jpg

Aussie version here

http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/da/3..._NormEllis.jpg
__________________
Alex Blair
:remember :support :drunk:
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 29-12-10, 20:12
Noel Burgess Noel Burgess is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Teesside, NE England
Posts: 211
Default Class 50/60 Raft

In the January issue of "Military Machines International" Les Freathy produced a nice article on WW2 tailers - including one of the Class 50/60 raft trailer.

Here's some info from the Trux website: -

The class 5/60 raft was only used, in NW Europe, for the Rhine crossing.
The trailer was sopposed to be towed by a "Tractor 6 ton 4x4" but for the actual crossing they were towed by "Royal Artilery tractors from an AA unit"

Can anyone add to this information?

Noel
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 02-01-11, 01:13
Noel Burgess Noel Burgess is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Teesside, NE England
Posts: 211
Default

OK all the bridging nuts must still have a hoilday hangover - lets see if I can wake them up with these few shots of Polish forces training in Italy (Sikorsky Museum photos from Le March in Guerra site)
first is an FBE boat being "unfolded
Second an FBE Decked Raft with FBE lorry boarding so must be a class 9 raft
Third appears to be an assault boat raft - I didn't know these existed
Attached Thumbnails
FBE 10 Polish.jpg   FBE 3 Polish.jpg   FBE 18 Polish.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 02-01-11, 01:29
Clive_Dakers Clive_Dakers is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 69
Default 215 Fd Engr Coy 1940 on exercise










Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 02-01-11, 01:32
Clive_Dakers Clive_Dakers is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 69
Default




Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 03-01-11, 01:58
Anthony Main Anthony Main is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oxford
Posts: 23
Default

Nice pic's Clive,Location looks like the river thames near Dorcherster !
Reply With Quote
  #141  
Old 03-01-11, 03:18
Richard Coutts-Smith Richard Coutts-Smith is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Barnawartha, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,224
Default

Magnificent photo's.
Not sure I would like to be on the end of that chainsaw though. I assume it is pnuematic?
Rich.
__________________
C60S
Austin Champ x 2
Humber 1 Ton & Trailer
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 10-01-11, 11:51
Keith Brooker's Avatar
Keith Brooker Keith Brooker is offline
Morris C8
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Essex UK
Posts: 213
Default Raft in the Far East

Great photos Clive. original Photo from my collection. truck on raft far east.
Attached Thumbnails
scan0004.jpg  
__________________
Keith
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 11-01-11, 01:30
Noel Burgess Noel Burgess is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Teesside, NE England
Posts: 211
Default

really enjoyed those photos Clive, Can someone remind me what that bridging equipment was called?

Now for a link to some film of Bailey Bridge construction; the commentary is in Spanish or similar language but I think you willl agree that it's an interesting film: -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m45CXAaHw80

Noel
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 14-01-11, 01:45
Noel Burgess Noel Burgess is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Teesside, NE England
Posts: 211
Default Class 50/60 Raft again

Back to the Class 50/60 raft - I have recently seen some pictures of these , on thier trailers, being towed up to the Rhine and launched by Churchill AVREs.
They are in Concord Publication's "British Tanks of WW2 (part 2) on pages 52 & 53. I won't post the pictures as mine are not good quality and are not, erm, entirely legally obtained.
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 15-01-11, 00:56
Keith Orpin Keith Orpin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oxford,UK
Posts: 347
Default

Clive,
Those pictures you posted were taken about 3/4 miles away from where I live ! (Anthony is a similar distance the other way), albeit probably 70 years ago. Love the Blenhiem bomber passing overhead, which could have taken off from RAF Benson or RAF Harwell. The houses in the background are still there, might be worth a before and after picture.
Thanks once again
Keith
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 15-01-11, 02:22
Clive_Dakers Clive_Dakers is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 69
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Orpin View Post
Clive,
Those pictures you posted were taken about 3/4 miles away from where I live ! (Anthony is a similar distance the other way), albeit probably 70 years ago. Love the Blenhiem bomber passing overhead, which could have taken off from RAF Benson or RAF Harwell. The houses in the background are still there, might be worth a before and after picture.
Thanks once again
Keith
That one with the Blenhiem is my favorite. I bought these as a job lot on EBay. There are a few more but the missing ones are mainly camp scenes and portraits etc. Nice idea about the before and after pics, any chance? Its a bit out of my way, I'm in Carlisle.
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 25-01-11, 15:21
Keith Orpin Keith Orpin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oxford,UK
Posts: 347
Default

Clive,
Wait until it warms up / dries up a bit, and I'll see what I can do
Regards
Keith
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 02-03-11, 01:28
chrisgrove chrisgrove is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ashford, Kent UK
Posts: 93
Default Various

Hi guys

First time I have looked at this Sapper thread!

Post 129 actually shows the Class 50/60 Raft about which there has been some discussion.

The series of big pics above, including the Blenheim bomber, show the Mk V pontoon bridge equipment, with an interesting variety of Albion (?) bridging trucks crossing. And from way back, there certainly was an assault boat raft.

David Potter has asked about some unit AoS numbers. My references suggest he could be right about 1317 and 1318. Peter Hodges reports 1317 as being an RASC pontoon unit (and 1318 as merely RASC), but both, he says, displayed 21 Army Group signs with the Army bar below the AoS, rather than 30 Corps signs. None of my references give a number for Corps Bridging Companies. And 16 would appear to be a Corps Ammunition Company, as none of 79 Armd Div seem to have had that number. Not very helpful, I am afraid.

Great pics on this thread!

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 01-04-11, 22:24
Les Freathy Les Freathy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: kent england
Posts: 1,284
Default

Evening Guys
Long long time ago i said i would put up some pictures from the book Bridging Normandy to Berlin so with the forum now up and running again i supose now is the time to start the ball rolling
Two photos here of Bristol Bridge a class 40 Bailey over the river Meuse at Maeseyck. It was constructed by 8 corps troops in January 1945 working in terrible condidtions including flooding
cheers
Les
Attached Thumbnails
70.jpg   71.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 01-04-11, 22:32
Les Freathy Les Freathy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: kent england
Posts: 1,284
Default

Another class 40 baily bridge this one is Winston built over the River Orne at Caen built by the Canadian engineers
Attached Thumbnails
72.jpg  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:30.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016