M151A2 in its new home

[maple_leaf_eh]

The shipper delivered the M151A2 Sunday morning. He actually was in town the day before, but we couldn't connect for the drop off Saturday.

Lessons - www.uship.com was a good way to find a shipper. However, two different guys bid on the auction only to back out. Each time, I had to crank up a new ad and readjust my expectations.

- this community very generously shared information and help. Thanks guys!

- although this M151A2 is a runner, it has rough spots in the restoration. I hope to undo these (within my skills) and pass it along to who ever is next owner for his enjoyment.

[rob love]

So Terry, which one are you going to fix first: the M38A1 or the M151A2? (says the guy with 30 projects sitting in the yard).

[maple_leaf_eh]

I need to keep the M151A2 running so I can get the M38A1 out of the shelter! It was plated in Alberta, and i just (!) need to get it inspected in Ontario to put plates on it.

Q to the collective wisdom - an Ontario Historic Vehicle plate is very cheap, something like $18 but there are restrictions and the vehicle must be reinspected every 5 yrs. this puts an additional cost on the annual expense. Similarly, the insurance has limitations on usage. Or, a normal vehicle plate will be a few hundred per year with no restrictions except for those from the insurance company. A normal plate would also let me buy a vanity plate number like, "74 PATT" "M151A2" or "74-099725", etc.

What has been your experience?

[Scott Bentley]

Admittedly, I skulked past your place in my MUTT yesterday and saw your new Tin Can in the yard. We need to get together!

[maple_leaf_eh]

So why didn't you make yourself useful and take the garbage cans out to the curb while you were prowling?

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

So why didn't you make yourself useful and take the garbage cans out to the curb while you were prowling?

I don't even get my own cans out on time

In all seriousness, I didn't get into this hobby to save money. I chose normal plates because I want the ability to drive my Jeep whenever I want, as much as I want, and without additional restrictions. There is always debate about how well the Historic Plate rules are enforced, but the extra $55 is a small price to pay to have the piece of mind about bending anymore rules (you're already driving something that was sold for scrap). Spring the $10 to the Legion for a Veteran Plate. Although I said I wouldn't run one while still serving, I think the Jeep is an exception (my DD still has normal plates). I get quite a few compliments on having a Vet Plate on a Vet Vehicle.

[Robin Craig]

and not a darn photo to prove this claim . . . . .


R

[maple_leaf_eh]

The snaps are on the phone and I do MLU on the PC. Patience folks.

[maple_leaf_eh]

A few snaps from the arrival. I drove it out of the trailer, up and down the parking lane a few times, then backed into the driveway where it now sits.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

A few snaps from the arrival. I drove it out of the trailer, up and down the parking lane a few times, then backed into the driveway where it now sits.

Ohh!! I wanna play MUTTs!

[servicepub (RIP)]

Looking good Terry. (the MUTT not you).

Clive

[maple_leaf_eh]

Clive et al:

With apologies to Scott, whose help I will need as the vehicle becomes a part of my daily (or weekly) life, I will revert to my old naming convention for this vehicle. I refuse to call it anything but a 74 Pattern Jeep or an M151A2 or a possibly made-up CFR number, even though some owners use another name.

So, today I reviewed the requirements to put it legally on the road:

For plated motor vehicles that are 20 years or older, the Retail Sales Tax (13%) is payable on the greater of either one of the following:
◦the purchase price (determined from the bill of sale) or
◦the replacement value for insurance purposes (from the insurance documents), or
◦the appraised value of the vehicle (from paid appraiser - who won't know what an M151A2 is valued).

I need a 10-day temporary licence and this gets the vehicle to an inspection station.

I found a garage does inspections, and for $69 we'll see if it passes. The guy on the phone identified himself as ex military when I told him what it was, and warned him that I needed to be present to start it. This could be promising. But then again, he might have been an Air Force Supply Tech who only handled aircraft parts.

I keep telling myself this is all for fun.

[Eric B]

Hello Terry

Looks good.

You will need reflectors on the back and rear sides to pass a safety.

There was a mod to attach the M38A1 style when the stickers were overpainted. You might see some holes in the body that might match up.

Princess Auto or Canadian Tire had some that would stick on to get a pass, then you can order the proper ones later.

Eric

[rob love]

Looking at the photos, I see it has the mirrors mounted on the fenders. The M151A2 engine was a little rough at idle speed, and the mirrors in that location tend to vibrate so bad you can't see anything out of them, plus the fenders would eventually crack around the mirror mounts. I would suggest putting a 3rd arm on them. The mirror relocation was an official mod....the 3rd arm was just common sense. Ask any farmer or construction worker......3 points of contact for stability.

Even better is just to move them back to where they belong.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by rob love

Even better is just to move them back to where they belong.

That's exactly what I did with mine. Welded up the holes in the fenders and mounted one back up on the cowl, like it was originally delivered.

[Andrew]

Are you sure every 5 years? I have never heard this in ontario

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

Q to the collective wisdom - an Ontario Historic Vehicle plate is very cheap, something like $18 but there are restrictions and the vehicle must be reinspected every 5 yrs.

[maple_leaf_eh]

@Rob and Scott - the harmonic on the mirrors during today's test drives did make all three mirrors shake. I had to put a finger on the inside mirror to make sure I wasn't seeing Eric Blair in the rearview.

@Andrew - I am only repeating what I was told at the Ottawa Tulip Festival MV convoy chin-wag.

Yesterday I picked up the Temporary licence plates and paid the 13% Retail Sales Tax. Did some more inspections. This morning, feeling slightly dehydrated after the Mess Dinner but that is another story, I added fuel and removed the spare engine and transmission from the back end. Found the windshield washer switch and tried to get the defroster blowing. Still haven't found the deflector plate behind the heater.

The inspection station was an education. Bruce Anderson (Allright Automotive Repair Inc) is an ex military vehicle tech and Bluebell wrecker crew! We talked Deuce and a Halfs, M37s, M38A1 and 5-tons. He told how he'd been a test driver at LETE. We had a running conversation about the M151A2, like showing the slave cable inlet and what years it served, as he watched his mechanics work.

The garage is a '60's vintage service station that couldn't sell enough gas to stay in business, but now fixes the neighbourhood's cars and minivans. The owner ran the show, a younger woman was doing paperwork in a tiny office, 4 suitably filthy wrench benders were all over cars in 2 bays and out on the yard. A tow truck dragged in a job. A nervious driver limped in another. Working drivers dropping off stuff. A serious operation that got my respect right away.

The M151A2 did not pass the first inspection. Some chatter between the mechanics about rotted cross members, and a grease "leak" from a wheel bearing. The weather cracked tires got some chatter, but they were passed. There are no seatbelts for backseat passenders, so the seat was removed on the spot. But the problem was where the rubber floor mats had concealed gaps in the floor, and rot in the battery box floor. I have 10 days to return to the garage to show my repairs. Bruce told me exactly what he wants to see done.

No body said these things would be effortless. Good thing I noticed 3' sheets of stock at Princess Auto for $25 at Princess Auto yesterday.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Just a few snaps off my phone.

[RHClarke]

Nice (referring to the lady with the gloves...)!

[maple_leaf_eh]

@RH - yup, she worked hard.

It was early afternoon and from the sound of the jobs coming and going, they were doing lots of tire rotations. You try pressing 4 car tires up to eye level for 7 or 8 hours a day, and NOT develop a strong upper body. The boss had everyone wearing safety boots. Those things weigh 5lbs each. Trudge around the shop day after day, and NOT tone your lower body.

[rob love]

For the rotted crossmembers, look for the underbody repair kit. They have become a little rarer these days, so some dealers have broken the kits up and just sell you the sections you need.

The closed channels of the Mutt were a chronic rust magnet.

Floors are easy. Cut out the effected areas and replace with new metal. One of those little Mig welders will suffice once properly set up.

After any repairs, be sure and undercoat everything. The seams and overlaps are areas where more rust will develop.

Ten days before re-inspection. You had better get busy.

[Eric B]

Hello Terry

Never heard that inspections must be done every 5 years for Historic Plates. Didin't see anything on the MTO web page. Think there is a mistake there.

There use to be an appraisal every 5 years for Silver Wheels Insurance, but that was removed when they were bought out by Haggarty.

There use to be after market retractable seatbelts at Princess Auto that would fit the back seats of the M151a2. I bought some for mine. Same could be used in the front without the rollcage.

Also US M151 versions available from the USA.

I have photos of different mounting locations, when you are ready to install.


There is a way to plate 1974 Ontario plates on the M151a2 under Year of Manufacture Plates. One of the licence plate collectors web pages tells you how to do it. (Even if there are no 1974 stamped plates, they used a sticker for the year.)

Or just use an older (pre reflective) set of regular plates if you still have some, but not in use.

thanks

Eric

[maple_leaf_eh]

ebay.com/itm/VIETNAM-JEEP-Truck-M825-M718-M151-A1-A2-LH-RH-CENTER-Under-Body-Repair-Panels-/181119933643?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories &hash=item2a2b96dccb&vxp=mtr

Is this the sort of thing I should be on the look out for?

[rob love]

Yep. That looks like the front cross-member under the driver and co-driver's floor. That is the first one to rot out.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

ebay.com/itm/VIETNAM-JEEP-Truck-M825-M718-M151-A1-A2-LH-RH-CENTER-Under-Body-Repair-Panels-/181119933643?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories &hash=item2a2b96dccb&vxp=mtr

Is this the sort of thing I should be on the look out for?

There is someone here in Ottawa I horse traded an entire Large Underbody Repair kit to. I won't put him on the spot, but he may or may not need all of it to fix his. I'll ask.

[maple_leaf_eh]

With a looming calendar date when I have to present the M151A2 for safety inspection, I made a plan to make roadworthy but not concourse-quality repairs. The battery box is under the passenger seat. The batteries are ganged together with cabling. They sit on a cookie sheet tray with is perched over two large oval basins in the battery box floor on top of the right frame rail. Why the designers put so much air space under the batteries is unknown, but all the M151 family seem to have this problem area.

Two days ago I used a pick hammer and 4" grinder to find and remove the worst of the rust. In the process of making sparks I became more familiar with the re-militarization job. The battery box floor had been torched in the disposal, and then patched together in the restoration. Fortunately only the righthand depression was rusted out. I trimmed some 12ga sheet steel salvaged from somewhere to make an 'L' shaped piece and a simple rectangle, each with a 2" 90-deg stiffener. Both pieces bridged between the frame rail hump and the outside skin.

Mindful of my own limits with sheetmetal, I decided not to recreate the basin shape but go flat across. Authenticity will have to wait until a later more skillful rebuilder takes the task. Some dimples on the bottom the battery tray mean it can't fit exactly back in the same spot, but the flat panels are actually a little lower than before. No fear, I will not let the terminals ground out on the cover.

Last night I turned to someone who was properly trained in welding - my brother the retired Ship's Engineering Officer. He ran the 110v MIG wire feed welder while I did the unskilled stuff. He heated the undercoating and paint, I'd scrape and brush. He'd tack, and I'd chip and brush. He'd start a puddle, and I'd adjust the feed. He'd take a breather, and I'd inspect or chip some more.

After four hours on the job and about 48" of weld, stopping only for one pint, we burnt in both patch panels and some unexpected little fillets. The floor is sealed up, and likely stronger than factory! The biggest problem is Bondo body filler concealed several marginal spots along the right sidewall of the body. Burning Bondo has a reek all its own, not to mention roasting nuts when bending over top ...

There are some other gaps between previous patch pieces elsewhere on the floor which were picked up in the inspection. I can unbolt or back out the existing fasteners and surgically wedge patches into place. But last night got rid of the daunting part of the job. Finish grinding and cleanup are still required. Primer, undercoating and outer surface paint will follow, probably the morning of the inspection.

Pix to fol.

And, just an acknowledgement to the forum for motivating me to try something I've never done before.

[Eric B]

Hello Terry

There was a CDN mod for the battery cover where a rubber sheet was glued to the underside to avoid any contact with the batteries.

The USA came out with covers for each of the battery posts and connectors.

I have a part of an underbody kit but require it for my own.

I have also seen shut off switches added to kill the battery. Inside the storage area behind the battery box or in front of it exposed to the passenger.

Battery floors are harder to come by. MD Yuan is suppose to be getting into some M151 parts including those. There is also a supplier in Denmark, but not cheap to ship.

I am also looking so will keep you posted.

The upper battery tray is easy enough to find.

Lots of us CDN's have had issues buying from TNJ Murray. He has most parts but i will not deal with him again.

I had been planning on making a run with a few others to Adams Auto wreckers but that was before we found out about the auction and them closing.

Thanks
Eric

[Scott Bentley]

To pile on to Eric's comments. This is my take on 151 parts:
I departed ways with a lot of money restoring mine, and hindsight is 20/20. The biggest thing I learned was to plan ahead and order in quantity/variety from Front Line MV (FLMV), and then have it shipped to Ogdensburg UPS Store. Drive down and collect.

There are others such as TNJ Murray and Army Jeep Parts who will ship to Canada, but TNJ is painfully slow and expensive, and AJP is quicker, but very expensive. Not to mention, the associated shipping and broker fees etc. As a side note, AJP recently bought all of Saturn's 151 parts (and marked them up significantly). Saturn was my original usual 151 parts shop, but FLMV is a good outfit.

There are also few pockets of parts in Canada. I know Brian Asbury has a bunch of parts and I believe Ralph down in Niagara Falls also has some as well. Unfortunately, neither have a webpage to order parts. So its a phone call/email to find out if they have what you're looking for.

As for Batteries and Body Parts:
I think I'm the last guy in Canada to pull off getting a Battery Box Floor from Jeep Panels Plus. My original was similar to yours. Between the rust, an acetylene torch, and then the booty-fab re-weld job, it was a complete mess. I've seen guys just pull the whole thing out and put a flat panel in it. Works, but you need to look hard at the batteries (height).

I ended up going with Honda Civic batteries (size 22R I think). Maint free, twice the cranking amps, and cheap. I think they were $55 a piece from Walmart in the USA. Probably a bit more here. I'm betting half the reason why those battery floors were all rotted out were from the original maintenence type batteries. I also did a Master Switch (LSVW style). Only difference was I chose to put it on the front of the Battery Box Bulkhead/Seat Riser between the Passengers heals.

[chris vickery]

Hi Terry

I would argue the seat belt issue, if they were never installed they don't need to be. I am not sure though about 1974 vehicles, if the seatbelt law was already passed then. At any rate, removal of the rear seat is a quick option, also if you check ePay there are numerous mil-spec lap belts to be had very inexpensively. IIRC, I think the last ones I saw were $15.95/pr.

[maple_leaf_eh]

I got a set from Peter Simundsen for the rotted and fatigued ones on the M38A1. They are black and have a flat heavy strap tab to bolt in. The only question will be finding somewhere reasonably strong and unrotten!

Ottawa's MV email list buzzed last week with a Stanley Cup victory parade for the Senators. What better way to parade than with all four running Ottawa M151A2s? Hence the motivation to attach seat belts for the backseat hockey player passengers!