German/Spanish/Soviet Chevrolet 1937 armoured car

[nuyt]

Yep, they existed!
See here: http://www.network54.com/Forum/47210...7+armorued+car
What Chevrolet Chassis were used?

[nuyt]

from captured armoured cars and other vehicles in WH service by Regenberg

[nuyt]

one more shot of possibly such a car during manobras in Spain, from La Caballeria Espanola, 1939-88:

[nuyt]

I wonder if these cars were actually really in German service. The Spanish volunteer Blue Division was dressed and equipped after the latest German fashion, so these men and cars on Regenberg's picture might simply have been Spanish and not German.
Nevertheless, a nice model for Spanish Civil War buffs!

[nuyt]

Why I am so obsessed with the origin of the chassis is this: Chevrolet AFAIk did not produce such wide 6x4 chassis. Someone must have converted the chassis from 4x2 to 6x4.
Now I do not want to look like a batavo-centric looney, but coincidence or not, DAF of Eindhoven delivered such conversions from 1937 onwards on Fords and Chevrolets. Of course these conversion kits were called Trado's.
Coincidence or not examples of 1937 Trado-converted Chevrolets were delivered to some party in Spain during 1937:

Linked from trado/walking beam/boomerang

[nuyt]

I am a batavo-centric looney, I found this googling:

El chasis empleado era el de un camión 6X4 Chevrolet SD modelo 1936 fabricada por la General Motors barcelonesa.

Bill, David?

[nuyt]

OK some updates:

There was nothing Soviet about this cars, they were Spanish built (after the BA6 model) in Barcelona on Chevrolet chassis. Nothing Soviet untill captured, off course.

Mr Regenberg's book shows four more pictures of the Spanish Chevrolet (I should have turned the page immediately), this time proving the Wehrmacht service story.

The two cars were called Jaguar and Leopard. Leopards turret was removed, before capture by the Soviets. At least one of these cars served as war correspondents' vehicle in 612th Propaganda company (WH). Jaguar had her main armament removed and a Reibel mg was fitted for the propagandists' selfdefence.

I guess the first picture above was taken in an earlier stage, as it still shows the main gun.

Now what about the chassis?

[nuyt]

from: http://republicaomuerte.iespana.es/achevro.htm

Llevaba un motor Chevrolet-216 de 6 cilindros en línea y refrigerado por agua, de 85 cv a 3300 rpm que permitía al blindado alcanzar una velocidad de 60 km/h.

A 6 cylinder Ch 216 engine, watercooled...

Su fabricación se inició en mayo del 37 con una producción de cuatro vehículos, producción que fue disminuyendo a finales de 1938 por problemas de abastecimiento. La producción total de estos vehículos fue de 70 unidades que formaron parte de la 2ª división de Ingenios Blindados y de los ejércitos de Levante y el Sur. Al igual que los UNL-35, los nacionales capturaron algunos en Extremadura y Andalucía, que fueron incorporados a la Agrupación de Carros de Combate, una gran cantidad fueron capturados durante la campaña de Cataluña (12 de ellos se encontraron en las instalaciones de la Hispano-Suiza en Barcelona). Algunos de ellos consiguieron huir, siendo utilizados por el Ejército francés y luego por los alemanes contra los rusos, hay fotografías de dos de ellas (con los nombres Leopard y Jaguar) en el frente soviético.

OK, this site states Jaguar and Leopard as ex-French vehicles (brought over by refugees in 1939)...

Let's wait for Pascal's book!

[nuyt]

here it is:

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

GM Peninsular started with a sales office in Madrid, and then expanded to become an ssembly plant for trucks in 1932 based in Barcelona. After the civil war started the Americans vacated through France I believe and the plant then assembled Chevrolet trucks for the military and then when parts ran out, I believe that they produced the Maraton ??? [or Marathon] is the spelling correct??? GM moved back in in 1939 and I believe some assembly started up again but closed 1940 because of monetary problems although some form of back-door deliveries through GM in Portugal went on. I will look up my history tomorrow morning.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

From 1934 GM's plant in Pontiac, Michigan produced CKD GMC kits for the Belgian and Dutch Armies supplied through GM Contninental SA/BV in Anvers/Antwerpen and sales office in Rotterdam. By 1936 the US Government had started buying GMCs, and Chevrolets, and the designs were shown to the Canadian DND. Basically, Chevrolet and GMC 6 x 4 chassis were available officially with Thornton rear-drive using Timken-Detroit components. Thornotn had first offerd 6 x 4 Chevy conversions at least as early as 1932 for oil exploration work. The Chevrolet and GMC were the same basic chassis, but with different engines at least in the export configuration and although there were no export 6 x 4 Oldsmobile trucks they were all sourced from Pontiac and say an Olds truck would have 'GMC' pedals, the GMC used an Oldsmobile engine, and the Chevrolet a GMC chassis. Very much 'badge engineering' [and this was very much the case with the Canadian Maple Leaf and GMC trucks]. Differences? Front grilles basically, and engine installation: Chevrolet, Oldsmobile or Hercules diesel. Pontiac then just bought in components off the shelf to extend and adapt the chassis to specific requirements. So, the Spanish assembly operation could have used DAF Trado or Thornton conversions.

[Bill Murray]

Hi Nuyt:
For the moment, I can only add a little bit pending further investigation.
Firstly, if it is truly an SD model, that is year 1937, not 1936.

Next, I agree with David regarding the possible source of the dual rear bogies. Thornton had a lot going with GM in the US and overseas, witness the well known ex French Contract vehicles that are commonly known as Thornton Chevrolets.

Just to throw a little intrigue into the discussion, in one of the Spanish books I have on the history of Spanish armour it mentions replacing the Russian motors with the same 85 hp Chev motor in a number of the original Soviet armoured cars.

Strangely, the vehicle in question did not appear in that book.

I will keep looking
Bill

[nuyt]

1 Intrigue or not, like Bill I always thought before this story came out that these cars were BA6 hulls with their GAZ chassis/engines replaced by Chevrolet ones, including engine. The BA and the Chevrolet only differ in outside detail (gun positions, turrets). Let's wait for Pascal's article to see how they were built.

2. If the chassis were 6x4 Chev/GM with Thornton components I am wondering if they still would be called "SD" as this was a specific name for the 4x2 trucks? Or simply 6x4 SD?

3. I enlarged Pascal's scan on the Braille Scale Forum and found out (but correct me if I am wrong) that the French impounded some 10 6x4 Chevrolet chassis en route to the Republicans. So these were either shipped from the US through France or from the Low Countries through France? What would make sense?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I am just trying out my daughter's new laptop. Basically GMC: different MODEL NUMBER so same with Chevrolet but same desingation, YR was the same for 4 x 2 and 6 x 4.

[Bill Murray]

I too have read of the French impounding chassis bound for Spain but could never get to the bottom of it, photos, details etc.
I suppose it is possible that the theory of placing of the Russian bodies on a Chev chassis may hold water but needs more investigation.

David: Good luck with the laptop. I hate the damn things as I cannot get comfortable to type on them and make many, many typos.
Bill