M113 Lynx photos needed for book project

[Ed Storey]

Does anyone have a copy of an actual FMC document that uses the term M113 1/2 or is this all conjecture?

[Douglas Greville]

I don't post messages with conjecture stated as fact.

If I am doubtful about something I say so.

FMC changed the name of the vehicle multiple times, I have the relevant images.

Regards
Doug

[Douglas Greville]

Does anyone recognise the Lynx in the attached pic (hopefully attached)?

It is not listed as a preserved vehicle, so perhaps it ended up elsewhere or as a target?

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Douglas Greville

Does anyone recognise the Lynx in the attached pic (hopefully attached)?

It is not listed as a preserved vehicle, so perhaps it ended up elsewhere or as a target?

The background looks like my youthful memory of the crosswalk between two buildings at Canadian Forces Base Valcartier. It might belong to one of the R22eR (or Vandoos) battalions.

[Douglas Greville]

Terry

Thanks for that. From what I have seen on the internet, most of the preserved vehicles are missing their CFR numbers. There are some vehicles that everyone seems to photograph and then others that nobody does.

eg. these 3

Riviere du Loop Quebec

J. R. Vicars Armoury - Kamloops

Fort McMurray Legion

Regards
Doug

[Mike Gray]

Correct me if I am wrong here, but does not the Ontario Regimental Museum in Oshawa Ontario possess and operate 2 M113's?

[Ontario Regiment Museum]

Hello Mike,
We possess just over a dozen vehicles of the M113 family, 3 of which are operational Lynx's.

[Wayne Hingley]

Here is a photo from today of the Lynx located at the armoury in Sherbrooke (67-35979). Sorry, I didn't have time to clean all the snow off it before the photo!

[jdmcm]

Robin I believe the Lynx you speak of from the Littlefield debacle ended up in Colorado and was cut apart to make a German tank replica

[Douglas Greville]

Hey Wayne

That looks like Lynx that someone threw pink paint on in 2007.

See pic.

Interesting that the plaque states the CFR but the vehicle is otherwise devoid of markings. Any idea of the CR2 number?

Regards
Doug

Originally Posted by Wayne Hingley

Here is a photo from today of the Lynx located at the armoury in Sherbrooke (67-35979). Sorry, I didn't have time to clean all the snow off it before the photo!

[Wayne Hingley]

Originally Posted by Douglas Greville

That looks like Lynx that someone threw pink paint on in 2007.

Yes, that is the same Lynx. I have gone past it hundreds of times, but never stopped to look it over closely. There are others on MLU who are actually from the Sherbrooke area. Perhaps they know more about this vehicle.

On my next visit to Sherbrooke I can get more info and a better photo if there is no snow, and if the temperature is above -20C.

[Douglas Greville]

John

The Australian army trialed that vehicle (actually quite a few nations did) against an M114, they managed to sink it and rolled the M114.

They decided they did not require either.

See attached pic of M114, waiting to have it's belly tickled.

Regards
Doug.

Originally Posted by jdmcm

Robin I believe the Lynx you speak of from the Littlefield debacle ended up in Colorado and was cut apart to make a German tank replica

[Douglas Greville]

Wayne

Ok thanks.

The CR2 number can be found stamped into the far upper RHS glacis plate. Or above the engine bay rear door handle.

I will try and attach a pic of location, but seem to be having issues attaching pictures.

Regards
Doug

Originally Posted by Wayne Hingley

Yes, that is the same Lynx. I have gone past it hundreds of times, but never stopped to look it over closely. There are others on MLU who are actually from the Sherbrooke area. Perhaps they know more about this vehicle.

On my next visit to Sherbrooke I can get more info and a better photo if there is no snow, and if the temperature is above -20C.

[Peter Phillips]

I believe I have a pic of a CH-147 (Chinook) lifting a disabled Lynx while on excercise in Chilcotin, BC, Jan 1987. I'll scan and post it if I can locate it. FWIW I backed a Lynx into a M-113 Queen Mary when off loading from my flat deck breaking a headlight on the 113 with the toboggan rack on the Lynx (remember those contraptions?). They were peppy little suckers compared to a 113. One of those oops moments

[Douglas Greville]

Peter

Ok, you've got me, what is an M-113 Queen Mary?

I have never heard of that version before.

I take it that it was the exact opposite of a Lynx and was a slug?

Regards
Doug

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Douglas Greville

Ok, you've got me, what is an M-113 Queen Mary?

Think it may have been a Command Post version.

[Douglas Greville]

Richard

Thanks. First time I have ever heard they had a name, perhaps it is a Canadian only thing?
A Lynx and one of those would be polar opposites I should think. Lynx 8 ton, M577 are around 12 ton IIRC.

Regards
Doug

[Mike Cecil]

I seem to remember the Aust trials were the Lynx, M114 and the in-service recon vehicle, the Daimler Ferret Mk.2 as the 'comparator'. From memory, the 'flip' referred to by Doug was during the tropical trials at Tully, and the sinking was in Ubanangee Swamp, also during the tropical trials in Queensland.

After determining that neither of the tracked vehicles would be acceptable, the Aust Army later opted for the M113A1 equipped with the T50(Aust) turret, which was already in service as the APC. The recon version of the M113A1 was called the Light Recon Vehicle (LRV), the difference when first introduced being the APC was equipped with 2 x .30 cal MGs, while the LRV had the .30/.50 combination. Soon after, the .30/.50 combination became the standard for both vehicles.

Mike C

[Peter Duggan]

Doug,

The Fort McMurray Legion does not have a Lynx. They do have a Chieftain, on loan from Jack Cross.

Peter

[Douglas Greville]

Peter

Thanks for that.

Just goes to show you can't believe what you read on the internet, even from those who profess to have documented the locations of preserved AFVs, which is the case for Ft McMurray.

Just to be sure, have you been there/live there and had a look?

What also confuses things, is that sometimes this stuff gets moved. Aberdeen Proving Ground being the classic example.

Lets be thankful we are not into the subject of the locations/fates of WW2 U-Boats, what a can of worms that one is!

Regards
Doug

Originally Posted by Peter Duggan

Doug,

The Fort McMurray Legion does not have a Lynx. They do have a Chieftain, on loan from Jack Cross.

Peter

[Peter Duggan]

Doug,

It wasn't there at Christmas, or anytime since 1978.

Peter

[Douglas Greville]

Peter

Ok, thanks.

That's a definite then.

There was a display Grant that had been modified as an observation post for the British nuclear tests at Maralinga. I came across it by accident at a tiny base on the outskirts of Adelaide years ago. Then later, on the internet, I saw it listed and another one at a different location in Adelaide (Keswick).
You guessed it, there is only one and it had been moved, but the original location had never been notated to show the move or the listing deleted.

Perhaps the person who did the original listing was unaware of the move/had lost interest/just didn't care. False information hangs around just as much as correct information.

So that meant that anyone into Grants thought there were 2 nuclear ones in Adelaide.

Thus the need to verify.

Regards
Doug

[Peter Phillips]

Originally Posted by Peter Phillips

I believe I have a pic of a CH-147 (Chinook) lifting a disabled Lynx while on excercise in Chilcotin, BC, Jan 1987. I'll scan and post it if I can locate it. FWIW I backed a Lynx into a M-113 Queen Mary when off loading from my flat deck breaking a headlight on the 113 with the toboggan rack on the Lynx (remember those contraptions?). They were peppy little suckers compared to a 113. One of those oops moments

Sorry my memory is slipping. I did witness a Chinook lifting a Lynx in B.C. and distinctly remember the rotors bending up trying to get it out of the snow. Here's the pic I must have taken; a chinook lifting an Iltis jeep and of a queen mary command post M113. I did smash two armoured vehicles together though; got the extra duties to prove it, lol.

[Mike Cecil]

Doug,

I think you will find that the Grant in question was modified for the Australian Malkara missile tests, rather than for the British Nuclear tests.

Mike

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Peter Phillips

Sorry my memory is slipping. I did witness a Chinook lifting a Lynx in B.C. and distinctly remember the rotors bending up trying to get it out of the snow. Here's the pic I must have taken; a chinook lifting an Iltis jeep and of a queen mary command post M113. I did smash two armoured vehicles together though; got the extra duties to prove it, lol.

Queen Mary's model number is M577A1. There were upgrded here in Canada to A2 and I believe a small number are now upgraded to A3.

[Douglas Greville]

Mike

Ok, thanks. Another case of being fed wrong information. It came from a military source, so I did not have reason to doubt it.

Regards
Doug

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Doug,

I think you will find that the Grant in question was modified for the Australian Malkara missile tests, rather than for the British Nuclear tests.

Mike

[Mike Cecil]

Probably the same source that informed me of the same thing a few years ago: when it arrived at its new home, I was contacted via the Tank Museum and asked if I knew anything about the 'Grant modified for the atomic tests' (since I'd written about the tests in relation to Centurion).

On being shown an image, it was obvious it was the Malkara observation platform, the provision of which was covered in the Malkara papers at NAA, and is the vehicle visible in several images of the Malkara testing at Woomera.

We have all heard (and to my sham, believed!) 'furphies', Doug: a forum like this does help to dispel them.

Regards

Mike

[Perry Kitson]

The Lynx manufactured for the Canadian army had the observer moved to a position to the left rear of the commanders cupola. Perhaps this is the reason CR-1 and CR-2 manufacturers designations.

[Douglas Greville]

Whilst on the subject of furphies, I have seen on the web that the Lynx did not use an M113A1 power pack.

This doesn't seem right to me.

Granted the Lynx did not have any hydraulics, so did not need the hydraulic pump that is normally on the 113 power pack, but other than that, I would be really surprised if FMC especially made a different version only for the Lynx.

From what I have seen, the Lynx pack lacks the hydraulic pump, has a step added above the transfer box engagement lever and that is about it.

See pics (hopefully), they are from Anthony Seward's walkaround set which can be found several places on the internet.

Regards
Doug

[Douglas Greville]

Originally Posted by Perry Kitson

The Lynx manufactured for the Canadian army had the observer moved to a position to the left rear of the commanders cupola. Perhaps this is the reason CR-1 and CR-2 manufacturers designations.

Perry

To the best of my knowledge that is exactly the reason for the 2 different designations.

There was a "Super Lynx" version, but nobody bought it, so it never got beyond prototype stage. Outwardly it looked pretty much the same hull, with an uprated engine and weapons station IIRC. I don't have the details.

Regards
Doug