RAF vehicles

[David Herbert]

Ted,

Nice photo. That Morris has military features not present on the preserved one: towing points above the front bumper, provision for mounting the spare wheel on the cab roof and a spotlight. These fit in with the preserved one being a re-creation based on a civilian vehicle.

David

[Bryan L]

It was only a matter of time before I found myself here! Some of you may know me as RAFMT on another forum, but it though I'd resuscitate this thread with an image to go with the armoured cars and armed tenders that were put up before:

[dcrfan]

Here is an unusual if not unique RAF vehicle recently published in the RNZAF Museum on-line photo collection. A captured German Schwimmwagen believed to be somewhere in France


2017-173.12_1.t60e631a3.m600.xIxgptBn_ by tankienz, on Flickr

Photo is at https://fotoweb.airforcemuseum.co.nz...-Collection%2F

[Allan Hillman]

Nice photo, thanks for sharing

Allan

[Keith Brooker]

A few photos from my collection.

[Keith Brooker]

A few more photos from my collection.

[Larry Hayward]

The attached photo shows a typical Austin 30 cwt ( I think) in RAF service in 1940-41.

It is camouflaged in G3 and G4 overspray I guess but I think the very faded RAF on the cab door suggests a thin coat of camo over what was the RAF Blue applied on delivery from the factory, as the use of the white 'RAF' insignia was very much a pre-war standard marking but (mostly) dropped with the introduction of camo colours. Conserving paint may have been a factor I guess hence a thin coat of paint, which soon wore off.

[ted angus]

Its a Bedford MSC supplied prewar to the RAF. Many were fitted with oversize tyres after introduction. Yes the RAF is an indication its pre war and no doubt would originally have been RAF Blue Grey.
Ted

[Larry Hayward]

I realise now the photo above was not an Austin. The engine cover hid the detail I was looking for, as in the attached photo of an RAF Bedford MSC in October 1940 with 83 Sqn c/o IWM.

By comparison this Bedford looks to have a cab as yet in need of disruptive camo, to match the rear wooden body. Could it be that the cab is still in RAF Blue at this stage of the war and soon to be completed when the proper paint arrives? It is hard to tell, but with the RAF insignia, it looks quite fresh and the paint appears to have a sheen. If it is in a base coat of G3 camo the RAF insignia would surely have been painted over?

Certainly the cab of the Bedford in the second photo (right) suggests the cab is still in RAF Blue glossy finish, with perhaps a very thin spray of G3 which has worn off or yet to be completed. So were vehicles painted in stages?

Also I guess that whatever the colours used on the wood of the body, they were different paint type from the metal parts?

Incidentally, I find it hard to distinguish a Bedford MSC from an ML. What are the distinguishing features?

[Larry Hayward]

Anyone who has studied Bedford OXA Armoured 30 cwt Lorries in WW2 will know that they were built as an expedient in 1940 due to the loss of so much at Dunkirk etc. And yet here we are in spring 1942 or later with a Bedford Armoured Lorry on guard in the background?

I doubt this is an Avro Lancaster factory airfield and more like an RAF one, as suggested by the RAF personnel. Incidentally many of these Bedfords, including the 3 tonners with COW guns, were passed to the RAF, so I consider it to be an RAF vehicle.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

“RAF road haulage in North Africa”.

Found some copies of article in Wheels & Tracks magazine.

[Larry Hayward]

Thanks Hanno

[dcrfan]

Some photos off the net showing RAF vehicles in Singapore/Malaya during the Malayan Emergency.

RAF Regiment or RAF Malayan Regiment?

m30-when-moving-base-pilots-repositioned-aircraft-rest-of-the-personnel-and-eqpt-had-to-travel by tankienz, on Flickr

Red with black mudguards?

59dcd7492598a_FiresectionJeepOfficialPhoto.jpg.a98 5b9731a725502a3960a67dabcf572 by tankienz, on Flickr

59dcd7764d824_JeepTowingPlane.jpg.baf246eb99e725ad a17be2d2432de741 by tankienz, on Flickr

59dcd79a7ff31_HoseTruck.jpg.209cff77090986377547fb ac88a18681 by tankienz, on Flickr

59dcd79aaf5e9_FireTruckandBedfordQL.jpg.24245e368e e55cec58206dab67b95b1d by tankienz, on Flickr

obb052617_davidtaylor_26 by tankienz, on Flickr

54113-39831687511574122 by tankienz, on Flickr

And these which are technically Army Air Corps but they were combined Army/RAF tradesmen manned units.

mt section by tankienz, on Flickr

mers2 by tankienz, on Flickr

[ted angus]

Originally Posted by Larry Hayward

Anyone who has studied Bedford OXA Armoured 30 cwt Lorries in WW2 will know that they were built as an expedient in 1940 due to the loss of so much at Dunkirk etc. And yet here we are in spring 1942 or later with a Bedford Armoured Lorry on guard in the background?

I doubt this is an Avro Lancaster factory airfield and more like an RAF one, as suggested by the RAF personnel. Incidentally many of these Bedfords, including the 3 tonners with COW guns, were passed to the RAF, so I consider it to be an RAF vehicle.

This photo was taken in 1942 at RAF Bottesford. A number of RAF stations were handed down these small Bedfords. The Larger vehicles titled AMADILLOs were built soley for the RAF & RN for airfield defence, In the Lineup picture these are MK 1s.

[Larry Hayward]

Thanks Ted.

Regarding the Bedford 3 tonner with a COW gun in the attached, it is interesting that it was built for RAF & RN airfield defence as it has an Army WD registration. I have the shell casing from the example used at RAF Christchurch in WW2.

Let me know your thoughts Ted, on the Bedford MSC above this post.

[Larry Hayward]

It has been suggested to me that the Bedford MSC (as in post number 279) that were used by the RAF were all impressed civilian vehicles and that none were ordered, as the RAF had Bedford ML with GS bodied and other variants.

Does anyone have production contract details for both?

[rupert condick]

Hi Larry,
I found that the RAF impressed, MoS vehicles,
for example,
Austin K2Y Ambulance, A5417729 MoS contract S.2797,
became RAF 161805 for Impressed vehicles, in fact I have only found
one RAF contract for 42 Austin Ambulances ( A.1782), the rest were Impressed
WD Austin K2Y'S.
So the Bedfords my have had a similar outcome.

regs
Rupert

[ted angus]

The MSC in post 279 was an Air Ministry 1939 contract with bodies by Spurling, I don't have a figure for the size of the contract but there appears to have been a fair few. Again in 1939 the Air Ministry received 183 end tippers on the MLC chassis with bodies again by Spurling for the Air Ministry works directorate.
Ted

[Larry Hayward]

Mike Starmer is of the opinion that the Bedford MSC in post 279 are civi trucks as its a drop sided vehicle of which there were very few in the RAF. He also suggests that the MSC with a man leaning out of the cab is in RAF Blue Grey that has been painted with some kind of paint that stuck to the wood body but not the cab. It certainly looks worn off the cab door.

[Ron Pier]

Hi I'm new to this thread, but talking about paint colours in B&W pictures. I have this one in a book showing Indian motorcycles, just post war.

I recon that this regiment were anxious to show their true colours and have painted one side of the tanks in blue/grey, the rest looks like Olive Drab. Ron

[ted angus]

Originally Posted by Larry Hayward

Mike Starmer is of the opinion that the Bedford MSC in post 279 are civi trucks as its a drop sided vehicle of which there were very few in the RAF. He also suggests that the MSC with a man leaning out of the cab is in RAF Blue Grey that has been painted with some kind of paint that stuck to the wood body but not the cab. It certainly looks worn off the cab door.

Bart Vanderveen notes the type in his publications. It was one of the first Bedford types ordered by the Air Ministry and the bonnet sides have been produced with additional louvres to meet an Air Ministry requirement. The RAF had other types with dropside bodies, The Fordson Sussex 6x4 and the Bedford 4x2 OWL spring to mind both used in large numbers.

[Patrice DEBUCQUOY]

Hello,

My favorite : Humber LRC (aka Type1800 in the RAF), here with the 2777 RAF Reg in Holland.

https://i.imgur.com/hVl1mbE.jpg

By the way, can somebody explain the "Type" nomenclature for the RAF vehicles ?

Cheers,
Patrice.

[Ron Pier]

The Bike is a Harley Davidson WLC. Ron

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Patrice DEBUCQUOY

Hello,

My favorite : Humber LRC (aka Type1800 in the RAF), here with the 2777 RAF Reg in Holland.

By the way, can somebody explain the "Type" nomenclature for the RAF vehicles ?

Cheers,
Patrice.

Type 1800 is the RAF classification for Armoured Cars.

[Patrice DEBUCQUOY]

Thank you Richard for the answer about the Type 1800.
What were the other types in the RAF nomenclature ?

TIA,
Patrice.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

"A WAAF driver turns the starting handle of a Standard 5-cwt van at Cardington, Bedfordshire."

Source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...45._CH8331.jpg


"WAAF trainee drivers and their vehicles, a 3-ton Fordson lorry, with a Standard light van in the background, at the RAF School of Motor Transport at Cardington, Bedfordshire."

Source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...45._CH8326.jpg


"A WAAF driver refuels her Morris Type 'C' ambulance at a petrol pump outside the workshops at Cardington, Bedfordshire."

Source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...45._CH8328.jpg


"A WAAF sergeant, driver to the Station Commander at Cardington, Bedfordshire, studying a route map on her Ford Type 'J' staff car."

Source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...45._CH8327.jpg

Note: some of these were posted before - either in a lesser quality scan or suffering a broken photo link

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Patrice DEBUCQUOY

Thank you Richard for the answer about the Type 1800.
What were the other types in the RAF nomenclature ?

Type 1900 was for Jeep or '5 cwt 4x4 car' (see attached pic from SAAF vehicles in Italy)

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

According to Bruce Robertson's book, "Wheels of the RAF", the Type numbers were introduced in early 1944. Type 1500 is shown as a '15 cwt van', so correct for the Ford van. But the jeep would have been Type 1900 which was allocated to '5 cwt 4x4 car'.

[Patrice DEBUCQUOY]

Hello,

Thanks for the prompt reply.
We have the beginning of a classification.
Type 1500 for 15cwt Van
Type 1800 for Armoured Car
Type 1900 for 5 cwt 4x4 Car
Any other clues ?

Cheers,
Patrice.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David_Hayward (RIP)

9-10 December 1942.

I am no expert but it appears to be a 1939 91A or E91A...the registration is a Middlesex County Council one in a series allocated to the Air Ministry, and fits in with a date of May 1939 from rego records though it could be out-of-sequence. The rego seems to suggest that this is a Ministry car not military, hence no RAF number.

I can no longer argue with David H., but my rebuttal would have been "what about the 3-ton Fordson lorry with reg.no. RMG 347?" (see above).

Edward (Ted) Angus answered that question:

Hanno its an RAF car. RAF reg numbers weren't introduced until late 1940/41, until then everything was Middlesex CC , some of these vehicles ran on these plates until post WW2 and can be found in the post war auction lists. Here are some Fordsons of a Barrage Balloon sqn near Antwerp late 1944.

[dcrfan]

The caption reads 2 Jan 1961, British Army Auster Kluang Airfield but note the interesting Fire Bedford QL in the background

https://flic.kr/p/2jdPxXW