Who like a Mystery?

Tim Lovelock · #1 03-05-13, 05:45

Hi folks, thanks for taking a look at the following to answer my questions.
I have what I presume to be a C-60L with some modifications.
The chassis measures at 213", taken from behind the bumper to end of chassis. 10" for tow pintle etc. would make it 223" I'm guessing.
The wheelbase however is 110"! 24"short, but when we looked for the positions of possible spring hanger mounts they don't correspond with the mounts currently on the vehicle (which have been bolted on as opposed to rivet).
So I'm suspecting there was a different spring mount set up originally to what I have now.
The tail shaft tube length is 30" (tube only).
On what I am hoping is a positive thing to help identify this vehicle is an engine number PR3946427
I also have a number stamped into the cab mount bracket. Is this the chassis number? 5808707(8)(-) the last two digits were very hard to decipher I'm hoping the pictures will assist?
My friend who came out and helped me today is a mechanic attempted to start the girl, felt it unusual to have a 'chassis' number on a bracket. If this is the case if you could give me a location to look I'd be grateful.
In term of starting her, not today, starter motor runs but wont engage. Motor turns by hand but according to Steve it didn't feel like it had much compression.
If anyone can enlighten us, we would appreciate your thoughts.
Accompanying photo's Serial number. Rear left springs and mounts. Just a note on one pic you can see, where it appears a spring hanger, may have attached originally but a different configuration to what is there.
Cheers Tim

rob love · #2 03-05-13, 06:46

That number looks more like the part number for the bracket. It also looks like a typical GM part number, aside from the last digits.

Tim Lovelock · #3 03-05-13, 07:00

Thanks. Rob, cheers

hrpearce · #4 03-05-13, 07:30

The chassis number on my C15A is stamped on the left chassis rail just behind the front spring shackel.

Tim Lovelock · #5 04-05-13, 02:15

Thx Robert

hrpearce · #6 04-05-13, 03:52

Hi Tim, I just took some photos of a C60S chassis,
1 chassis no.
2 front rear shackle
3 back rear shackle
From these pictures you can see that the spare holes you showed in your second picture are for helper spring stops.

Tim Lovelock · #7 04-05-13, 14:07

Thanks Robert, those pictures are really helpful.
I will have to head out to my truck again for another look but when my friend and I looked the other day we couldn't work out where the rear hangers would go as no holes seemed to marry up with the bracket having the two rivet points on the side and two from underneath. But with your photos I can have a better look. Thanks and cheers. Tim

hrpearce · #8 04-05-13, 14:19

Tim post a fiew photos of the chassis from further back. Is it possible the springs are in the right place and the chassis has been shortened in the middle.

Tim Lovelock · #9 05-05-13, 01:45

Thx Robert, won't be able to post pics for a few days, but I am thinking that what is now the rear spring hanger is possibly the original front, that way the helper spring bracket would have fitted where the mark is. Why though they would have gone to the trouble of replacing the rivets with bolts on that one seems a mystery.
But I will get more pics.
Thx again for your help.
Cheers Tim

Tim Lovelock · #10 13-05-13, 10:54

Thanks, Robert for your pics. Got over to my trucks today and was able to chip the paint of in the area you suggested. I thought it remarkable the condition of the steel below the paint. Fresh from the factory!!
So here is her No.38443M00678.
Next question, how do I trace her military history?
Cheers

hrpearce · #11 13-05-13, 12:03

If you can find the numbers on the nose and the plate on top of the dash you have a chance of tracing the trucks history. We need more pictures of the blitz from all angles. All the chassis no. tells you is its wheel base, that it was assembled in Melbourne and the assembly number.

Keith Webb · #12 13-05-13, 12:58

38443M00678

8443 = C60L

M = Melbourne assembled

As Robert said the important info is on the data plate, the WO number which is the code for the body type.

Common WO types were:
WO52 = Garage
WO82 Dropside tray with winch
WO83 same but without winch

The other clue is the ARN, also mentioned by Robert.

Mike Cecil · #13 13-05-13, 18:35

Tim,

The truck with the chassis number 38443M00678 equates to the Commonwealth (Army) Registration number 142001, taken on charge in Victoria (which fits with the 'M' indicating assembly at GM-H's Melbourne - Fishermans Bend - plant as mentioned by Keith).

It was a C60L 'Truck, 3 ton, GS with winch' and is noted as a 'steel body', ie a standard fixed sides steel base body as produced by GM-H at their Woodville, SA plant. The complete nomenclature would therefore be a 'Truck, 3 ton, GS with Winch (Aust) No.2'. The Census Code was 6071 and the Mechanical Vehicle Field Specification (MVFS) was 1314.

Original engine number appears to have been PR3923988, but with at least four other engine replacements while in service, the last being in 1955: PR3957377. The truck was written off and disposed of on 17 August 1961. No other info available.

As an aside, chassis number 2844300678 was a C60L configured as a 'Stores-Binned'.

Sounds like your C60L has been altered - perhaps beyond redemption?

Mike C

hrpearce · #14 13-05-13, 21:29

Wow Mike where were you when I was trying to id my blitz?
Does the 3 at the start of the chassis no. mean a 1943 build?

Mike Cecil · #15 13-05-13, 22:11

Probably sitting on my behind in the office, laboriously transcribing chassis numbers......

Yes, the '3' prefix indicates a 1943 build/assembly. Hence, the same number with a '2' prefix from the previous year, but without the location code (M), for a different vehicle.

Mike C

Tim Lovelock · #16 14-05-13, 11:38

Wow, what a great help you have all been, Robert, Keith and Mike, thank you all sincerely.
So beginning with my first thread, the rear suspension has been moved forward with the diff in front of the still existent winch. Helper springs and mounts have also been removed.
She was discharged from the army the year I was born, 52 years ago after 18 years service. 5 engines in 12 years that's quite a thrashing!! Did I read somewhere that they are a splash pan motor?
Surprisingly enough the chassis and what's left of the cab probably has the original green paint. I came into possession of this vehicle after it being stored in a shipping container for some years, prior to being put outside, so first and foremost are plans to get her inside again.
If I can indulge in a couple more questions.
I'm figuring the Commonwealth Reg No.142001 is the number painted on the front cowl?
The 8444-1942 under your bonnet Robert is that a standard thing?
What do the census code and MVFS stand for?
And what would a C60L (Aust) No.2 "Stores-Binned" look like??
Beyond redemption, I'm not sure, given my aim all along has been a 101" of course ever since making the Tamiya 25 pdr & Quad model some time ago I've always fancied a GT, I guess I'll join the que and try to win tatts.
The other mod she had at sometime was for canvas doors.
Thanks again as today she has a history and story that was non-existent yesterday.
If you thought this one was a basket case, Mike you have encouraged me to get the grinder out and cut the steel plate the S.A. Country Fire Service welded on my other girl, I would say to strengthen its chassis as a water tanker. But if its ok with you, I'm willing to remove a small portion to try and get the all important chassis number, which might just be an exercise in futility given how many of these vehicles were manufactured in the first place. But it's very exciting to have a little more history. Cheers Tim
Regards Tim

hrpearce · #17 14-05-13, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Lovelock

If I can indulge in a couple more questions.
I'm figuring the Commonwealth Reg No.142001 is the number painted on the front cowl?
The 8444-1942 under your bonnet Robert is that a standard thing?

142001 goes on the cowl and instead of 8444 your blitz would have had 8443 under the bonnet. The 1942 should be 1943 on both our blitz's but whoever stenciled mine used the wrong year. The other questions I can't answer.

Tim Lovelock · #18 14-05-13, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrpearce

142001 goes on the cowl and instead of 8444 your blitz would have had 8443 under the bonnet. The 1942 should be 1943 on both our blitz's but whoever stenciled mine used the wrong year. The other questions I can't answer.

Cheers Rob

Mike Cecil · #19 14-05-13, 18:27

Hi Tim,

To answer your questions as best I can:

I'm figuring the Commonwealth Reg No.142001 is the number painted on the front cowl? - yes, as per the previous answer, and across the tail gate, usually low and in the centre.

The 8444-1942 under your bonnet Robert is that a standard thing? Yes: underbonnet nomenclature for all Australian Army MVs was introduced in mid-1942, and was retrospective (ie was also to be painted on existing vehicles in the field, as well as by assembly contractors). As said, yours should read 8443-1943 (or 8443-1942, depending on how you read the orders, as it was the model and model year, rather than the year of production, that was required. Generally, however, the year of production/assembly was inserted)

What do the census code and MVFS stand for? The CC was the Army code for the vehicle type/class, rather than laboriously writing out the complete nomenclature each time. The MVFS was a document that described the vehicle, and listed all tools and accessories that were issued with the vehicle, and who supplied them (manufacturer, assembly contractor, or ordnance).

And what would a C60L (Aust) No.2 "Stores-Binned" look like?? From the outside, it looked like a GS truck. Inside the base body, a set of stacked steel bins were fitted along each side to carry small parts, replacement items and equipment such as webbing, etc depending on the application/user-unit of the vehicle. For example, an Ordnance Supply unit might carry such things as webbing equipment pieces, while a Field Workshop might have one for small truck parts, and another for small arms repair parts, and so on. The canopy frame was infilled with cyclone wire panels for security, and covered with a canvas canopy. I think there were a set of steps attached to the inside face of the tail gate, too, (but am I thinking of the Office truck? - will have to check).

Mike C

Tim Lovelock · #20 14-05-13, 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Hi Tim,

To answer your questions as best I can:

I'm figuring the Commonwealth Reg No.142001 is the number painted on the front cowl? - yes, as per the previous answer, and across the tail gate, usually low and in the centre.

The 8444-1942 under your bonnet Robert is that a standard thing? Yes: underbonnet nomenclature for all Australian Army MVs was introduced in mid-1942, and was retrospective (ie was also to be painted on existing vehicles in the field, as well as by assembly contractors). As said, yours should read 8443-1943 (or 8443-1942, depending on how you read the orders, as it was the model and model year, rather than the year of production, that was required. Generally, however, the year of production/assembly was inserted)

What do the census code and MVFS stand for? The CC was the Army code for the vehicle type/class, rather than laboriously writing out the complete nomenclature each time. The MVFS was a document that described the vehicle, and listed all tools and accessories that were issued with the vehicle, and who supplied them (manufacturer, assembly contractor, or ordnance).

And what would a C60L (Aust) No.2 "Stores-Binned" look like?? From the outside, it looked like a GS truck. Inside the base body, a set of stacked steel bins were fitted along each side to carry small parts, replacement items and equipment such as webbing, etc depending on the application/user-unit of the vehicle. For example, an Ordnance Supply unit might carry such things as webbing equipment pieces, while a Field Workshop might have one for small truck parts, and another for small arms repair parts, and so on. The canopy frame was infilled with cyclone wire panels for security, and covered with a canvas canopy. I think there were a set of steps attached to the inside face of the tail gate, too, (but am I thinking of the Office truck? - will have to check).

Mike C

Again a very great thank you Mike, very, very greatly appreciated, cheers. Tim