Chevrolet Truck ID Required

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi all

A new member to our Museum bought himself this truck that one of our members believes was an Indian Army Pattern ambulance. Details I have obtained so far is that it was;
* built by General Motors Holden
* Chassis No. 1530
* body No. 163
* Job No. 2412
* number on bonnet 18611

Bob


The first image is Nearside Front



Nearside rear view



Nearside rear wheel



Nearside door

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

This is interesting. This is a non-operating door caused by the spare-wheel carrier being bolted into this position. Would have been very awkward for the driver to have to climb out over the passenger side.

OK experts - lets go. And can someone provide a potted history of the "Indian Pattern" stories.

I'll be off-line for a few days due to Corowa but I will be eagerly anticipating good results on this enquiry.

Bob

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bob Moseley
A new member to our Museum bought himself this truck that one of our members believes was an Indian Army Pattern ambulance.

Hi Bob, great find! Search for "Ambulance Indian Army Type" on the AWM site and 9 pics will turn up. The one below shows the spare-wheel carrier on the driver's door.

The "Ambulance Indian Army Type (Aust) No. 1" came on a variety of chassis, including both conventional pattern and CMP 30-cwt chassis made by Chevrolet and of course Ford. Also, Mike posted a pic of one on a Dodge chassis in the thread "Dodge D8A T212 info needed".

I'm sure you're happy with the good results on this enquiry

Regards,
Hanno




ID Number: 127736
Summary: AUSTRALIA. LORRIES, AMBULANCE, INDIAN ARMY TYPE (AUSTRALIAN) CHEVROLET. RIGHT SIDE VIEW.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

The grill on Bob's truck is like nothing I can find..
It looks GM ,but runs the wrong way..
Here is a 41 GM Holden owned by Dave Wolfe.....in OZ no Less..
See here
http://www.stovebolt.com/gallery/wolfe_dave_1941_01.htm

The grill on the picture posted is different...

[Mike Kelly]

Bob,

I will see you at Corowa , if my 20 year old car makes it there .

OK , I believe GMH had the Indian ambulance bodies contracted out to a outside firm , possibly in Melbourne or Adelaide . I have some pics of one being built , the company name is in the corner .

As far as I know none of these bodies have survived intact on the MCP chassis', as you can imagine , being made from wood and doped canvas , the bodies just literally fell apart in then harsh aussie climate . Your club members find is indeed rare . Making up a replica body will be nigh on impossible as none survive . I think the CMP based ones will be quite different , being made late WW2 .

With respect to Mr Wolfes vehicle , it can only be described as a mock up, GMH never built anything like it , the wheels look like 16" CMP , the rear body is completely wrong . I am not sure what it is supposed to represent . The GMH MCP light trucks had a ute type body fitted .

I will try to post some pics here of the Indain body under construction . Note the body builders name in the corner .

Another interesting thing , these Indian amb bodies were also built on the Inter D type and Dodge 1939-40 model 1 ton chassis .
The normal chassis used was the 1940-41 Chev and Ford 30 cwt , fitted with the 9.00-18 rims/ tyres , as with your example .

Mike

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The '1530' may be 1530 series, in which case it is a Model 1531 2 ton Canadian Chevrolet Chassis with Cowl or 1532 Chassis with Flat Face Cowl. The chassis would have been bodied by GM-Holden's of course.

Is there any build plate please with chassis number?

[Philliphastings]

Certainly looks like a candidate for what must be a very rare vehicle these days.

Dual wheels appear never to have been fitted, which must be a little unusual in rural Australia (short studs on rear hub)

In Norm Darwin's 'History of Holden since 1917' there is a reference to Holden body building division themselves producing 50 Chevrolet Ambulances in just 10 days in November 1939 for the war effort.

There is also a photo of such vehicles lined up at the plant - but they are all 38/39 models with integral sheet metal cab and roof.

I guess two questions which come to mind are:

Is this one of the same batch as portrayed in the AWM image - but with later front sheet metal retrofitted ?- or

Is it a surviving example of a subsequent contract ?

Cheers

Phill Hastings

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The wheelbase will confirm whether it is a 1938-9 or 1941-2 [133 versus 134 1/2" respectively]..I just do not buy it as a 1939 Model since the front end, bumper, and cab screen all scream 1941-2. Can it have been a diverted NEI order? Unlikely, but it could have been a diverted SINGAPORE delivery. Singapore were supposed to have received CMPs for instance. The reason for the discounting of a NEI order is because a Series 1530 is a Canadian designation but who knows..it could have been a US supply and Holdens just designtaed it what they thought it should be.

[Max Hedges]

This truck was in service by the middle of 1941. When l checked the AWM records l found that the truck that came after this one was wrecked in the middle of 1941. This truck is now housed at the war memorial, and is in original condition. They are a nice truck to have, I have a spare chassis if you need any parts.

Max

[Max Hedges]

Hear is the photo

Max

[ edit by moderator: removed blank picture ]

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

I opened your post and found this

Is this a self portrait c/w Sheep boots and beer...
on a CMP expedition with you Chev hat..??

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Max....
You have to get a grip...

[Max Hedges]

Your right Alex one of those days, just can't get the photo smaller enough to fit.I'll email it to Keefy he is better on these things than me.
Who told you that I don't mind a nap from time to time.
Max

[Philliphastings]

Just to clarify my earlier post - I wasn't asserting that the SA discovery was one of the batch of 38/39 Holden bodied Ambulances - merely illustrating the point that Holdens were responsible for at least that many (50) Ambulance bodies early in the war.

I have a chart somewhere here (now where did I put that darn book ?) which illustrates each year model of Chevrolet commercial vehicles and ID's the front end sheet metal.

Without reference to the chart I won't hazard a guess at the SA vehicle's year model but it is clearly 1-2 years newer than the Holden Bodied Chev Ambulances pictured in Norm Darwin's work.

Despite the obvious difficulties it will involve, I'd still love to see the SA vehicle restored some day...

Cheers

Phill Hastings

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I am betting on a 1941 Model Canadian chassis, and not a refugee chassis either.

[Max Hedges]

There was an ambulance chev much like this one on a property not far from here many years ago.A bloke in town has been trying to locate it but so far no luck.

sleepy Max

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Gotta be a '41 Chev ..the upper part of the grill is showing the vertical support frames which hold the horizontal trim pieces....
See here.
http://www.oldtrucks.com/
Go To year identidy and 1941 Chev/GMC

[Brian Gough]

Alex,

Also on that same website, http://www.oldtrucks.com/ under Chev/GMC, 1942 check out the CMP photo and explanation.

Brian

[Keith Webb]

Max has been trying to upload this picture, which had been made very small, but in an A4 size page, so here it is in actual size...

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by Brian Gough
Alex,

Also on that same website, http://www.oldtrucks.com/ under Chev/GMC, 1942 check out the CMP photo and explanation.

Brian

And here it is... bizarre, isn't it? Obviously a much modified 1944/45 C60L.

Quote: "1942Because of the start of WWI this was a short production year and only the COE models came with chrome trim."

http://www.oldtrucks.com/chev/1942cmp.jpg

Source: Old trucks .com

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Max Hedges
This truck was in service by the middle of 1941. When l checked the AWM records l found that the truck that came after this one was wrecked in the middle of 1941. This truck is now housed at the war memorial, and is in original condition.

Gee Max, that's a great looking, original truck! It seems the driver was in original condition also?


Source: http://www.oldcmp.net/awmopen1.html

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Gee Max, that's a great looking, original truck! It seems the driver was in original condition also?

Hanno, I think the driver is looking a little worn out - perhaps he needs reconditioning.

[Bill Murray]

No one seems to want to say for sure exactly, so I will.

It's bloody well a 41/42 Chev so let's get that overwith.
I have not had time to dig deeper than that but at least let that be written.

I will try to go through my files of AWM photos that I either have copies of or have downloaded (I know that vehicle is not in my download file) and see if I can get a match. I have collected them since the 1960s so may get close. Sad to say my scanner does not want to communicate with Windows XP so I may have to scratch up the money to get a new one before I can scan any pics.

I hope it is an original setup as so darn many of these trucks got modded in so many ways over the past 50-60 years or so. In any case it looks very restorable and worth the effort.
Bill

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi guys & gals

I'm just back and still blown out from a brilliant Corowa meet. Piccys later. This is a great response for a couple of days. I mailed the lot to the owner, Ricardo, and invited him to get onto this forum. If he doesn't I'll steal his tyres.

Mike - great interior shots. Between those and the interior of Ada & my ambo we should be able to get it together.

So now we wait for Ricardo.

Bob

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's a picture of a Ford variant of this ambulance driving along the newly widened Tiddim Road in Burma:
http://www.ku.edu/carrie/specoll/AFS.../AFSL29-30.jpg

See AFS LETTERS XXIX for this picture and other ambulances, inlcuding a shot of ambulances being assembled on the spot by natives in Kenya:
http://www.ku.edu/carrie/specoll/AFS.../AFSL29-10.jpg

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Hanno
Interesting site. Did you notice one of the photos features what appears to be a tracked ambulance? This would be appropriate for the old thread of Half Track Ambulances.
Bob