Conger Carrier restoration, Overloon The Netherlands

[Alex van de Wetering]

We thought the Conger rocket could be the same as the Z-gun/Z-rocket used for Canal Defence.

The launch tubes on the picture below look similar to the ones fitted to the Conger. The rocket seems under 5inch though......Any thoughts???


pictures source: Imperial War Museum.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hi Guys,

Here is a shot of the Conger from about three weeks ago.

In the meantime a new "firewall" has been constructed using the original rusted through piece as a template. The Carrier also has its front and rear mudguards in place again.

Alex

[PaulUK]

I have just come across this very interesting Conger thread. I didn’t realise one had survived. Whether any of the following is relevant I am not sure…

I have been doing a bit of research into the 1st Assault Brigade, RE, 79th Armoured Div., which had the Churchill AVREs.

One of its Assault Squadrons, 617, supported the attack towards Overloon and Venraij, Operation Aintree, which started on 12th October. In the initial stages the main forces were 3rd (British) Div, 6th Guards Tank Brigade (4th Bn Coldstream Guards and 4th Bn Grenadier Guards) and the flails of the Westminster Dragoons – as well as 617 .

The main task of 617 was to ensure the Churchills of 6th Guards Tank Brigade were not held up by any physical obstacles. On the 9th October the OC of 617, Major Alexander, discussed the stores that would be required by the Squadron for AINTREE with the CRE 3rd Div, Lt Col Urquhart. Based on this six fascines, six sledges (carrying log carpet and brushwood bundles) and two Congers were ordered.

The plan was that 1 Troop were to support the Churchill tanks of the 4th Bn Grenadier Guards on the right; they carried four fascines and towed three sledges. 2 Troop would support 4th Tank Bn Coldstream Guards on the left, with two fascines, the two Congers and two sledges.

On October 12th the offensive began but after initial progress the armour ran into problems from mines. Battalion HQ lost their two rear link tanks on the newly encountered R’ mine and the CO’s tank was then disabled. At 1400 617 Squadron was called on to try and clear a path through the minefield with the Conger. By this time mines were also affecting the advance of 1 Sqn of the Coldstreams, supporting the Suffolks, and 3 Sqn with the East Yorks; the infantry of the East Yorks suffered particularly from lack of tank support as a result of the mines and German mortar and tank fire.

Half of 2 Troop, 617, were sent to the stores building site to fill and mount the two Congers. On the way the Squadron suffered their first casualties of the battle. Bill Wood was a member of the Troop.

"We crossed an open field towards a wood, and as we neared it a terrific fusillade of machine-gun fire erupted from it…..The enemy replied at once and caught us in the open with mortar bombs. Bill Shurey and Ernie Martin were wounded slightly, Tommy Hopkinson took shrapnel in the gut and was mortally wounded [he died on 17th October]….We proceeded to the site, filled and mounted the Congers, all the while we were subjected to mortar fire, however not so accurate as the first salvo (filling Congers was a hazardous task [due to the volatile nature of the 822 explosive] and we were only allowed to fill it in turns, one jerrycan at a time, the reason being fumes and/or steady hand…)".

By the time the AVRE returned with the Congers British infantry had made steady progress through the minefield and were spread over the area, so they could not be used The Conger had to be returned and carefully emptied of its hazardous explosive.

Of course the battle continued and 617 were key in enabling the crossing of the Molenbeek on 16th October. But despite the proliferation of mines during the advance the Conger was not considered again for employment.

Of course on the 20th October the explosion occurred at Ijzendijke, killing number of men in 284 Assault Squadron as well as the Canadians troops. I wondered if the explosion so soon after the Overloon battle had any bearing on the fate of the Congers 617 had there. Perhaps we will never know.

Regards

Paul, UK

[Alex van de Wetering]

Paul,

Thank you very much for your reaction. It is most interesting to hear that Congers were present in the surroundings of Overloon during the battle.
The Overloon museum archives have no records where the Conger came from. Uptil today we thought that the Conger was a gift for the museum like the Windsor, 6-pounder etc, (which arrived postwar when the museum opened) and we assumed they were never used in Overloon. But, if they were present in during the battle in Overloon, than maybe they were left behind???? This could also explain the missing rocket launcher, which is also missing on the oldest Conger picture of the Overloon museum.

Thanks Paul!

Alex van de Wetering

[Alex van de Wetering]

Guys,

I am looking for some help here. Although I have spent some time looking for old fittings of the Conger equipment in the carrier, I am having trouble finding any. I have to say that some panelwork has been replaced in the past, so some info might have vanished back in the days. of course it could also be that the Conger equipment used holes which were allready there in the "normal carrier" configuration.

Can anyone of you guys have a look at the two attached pictures to see if you can discover any holes/fittings which are not on a " normal" mk1 carrier? Lynn? Jordan? Nigel? Hendrik?



Alex


p.s. You can see that the bows for the attachment of the Nitro-tank have been fitted in the meantime. The lower supports on the " engine frame" were still there fortunately.

[Alex van de Wetering]

rear

[Jordan Baker]

Hi Alex

The work so far looks great. I can only imagine how hard it must be to complete this project when so little is known.

To answer your hole question, I don't see any that are out of place for a Mk1. I would tend to believe that the original holes were used for simplicity. Why re-drill through armour plate when you can use a bunch holes already in place.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hi Jordan,

Thanks for the compliments. The guys at the museum are really doing a good job, especially when you take the limited budget into consideration. Indeed, some things are hard to reproduce, but we did manage to sort most of the things thanks to the information from pictures and from what we got from Nigel Watson.

Good to hear your idea about the use of the original holes. I had another look and there doesn't seem to be any specific Conger fittings on the bottom and rear armorplate, so it sounds plausibel that the original carrier holes were used.

regards,

Alex van de Wetering

[Nigel Watson]

Hi Alex
Was studying the second photo showing the inside back wall of the carrier and there are two holes which aren't on mine. They are either side of the engine frame low down drilled through the angle iron. They are not drilled out rivots as they appear to be in a different position. My MkI doesn't have them and before anyone asks I don't have a fuel tank in the way on one side!! and no hole through on the other. Just holes in my overalls from clambering along the cold concrete floor!!

Nigel

[Alex van de Wetering]

Nigel,

Good point! Kind of sad that I didn't notice these holes myself!

Alex

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Alex van de Wetering
Good point! Kind of sad that I didn't notice these holes myself!

No, sorry, it really is kind of sad when one does notice those holes. I value Nigel Watson as a friend, but he's a bit of an anorak, really

H.

[Jordan Baker]

HI everyone

Nigel, I think those holes are for the rods that control the brakes.

[Alex van de Wetering]

And good point, Jordan!

You're right. I had a look at the pictures from the beginning of the project and indeed the brake-rods ran through these holes...

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hi Guys,

The nitro-tank is back in! It is starting to look like a Conger again.

Also the bogies have been refitted to one side along with the tracks. Because the replacement springs were not available yet , the decision was made to temporary fit the old (welded) springs.

I am now working on drawing up the armor house which should protect the nitro-tank. Hopefully this can be rebuild in the next few weeks/months.

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Nitro

[Alex van de Wetering]

A picture of last thursday.....

Nigel Watson and his wife Pam were on Holiday in Holland and they spent a day in Overloon. They were very lucky.....the wheather was very good this week

Nigel, It was very nice meeting you and your wife; thanks for all the information. It was well woth taking the day off work!

Alex

[wim sikkelbein]

found this one while browsing my own "archive"
source unknown

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by wim sikkelbein
found this one while browsing my own "archive"
source unknown

Hmm, maybe the Universal Carrier With Conger Device thread?


H.

[wim sikkelbein]

oops sorry about that

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by wim sikkelbein
oops sorry about that

No problem, Wim.
Better posted twice than never!

H.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Guys,

It’s been over a year since I posted the last update on the Conger project. Last year the Overloon-Conger was moved from the workshop to the exhibition area along with a G13/Hetzer tankdestroyer and a Renault FT-17 to inform visitors about the restoration projects on hand. This did however mean that no welding and grinding could be done on the Conger. Meanwhile, the path of reproducing the missing parts was activated. A few repro-parts came in, but sadly they didn’t match the drawings we made based on research of the Operating instructions and the available period pictures. The decision was made to redo the parts, but before we were ready to start this stage, Nigel Watson found another, very important, bit of Conger information…….the drawings which came with the operating instructions!
This gave us some new insight on how some parts were attached to eachother and to the carrier. I translated the new info to the CAD model, which also enabled us to place overlays on original pictures to determine the exact positions of bolts etc. After the drawings were done, some of the 8mm sheetmetal was ordered outdoors, while other parts were cut from 8mm plates indoors, to “cut” costs. Below you will find some pictures taken last weekend, which show the mounting for the rocket-tube and the doghouse; the armoured construction to protect the nitro-filled tank.

There is also some new info on the "standard" rocket used by the Conger, but I will post that in the Conger rocket thread.

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Some pictures from last weekend....



Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

The rear stowage box is finished and the last few bits are being added to the doghouse.

I am really happy how the metal work is turning out. Let's hope the rocket tube can be assembled in the next few weeks.

Of course the weight of the carrier will also be going up, so more serious equipment will be needed to move the carrier to the exhibition when it's finished!

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hi Guys,

Below you will find some pictures of the painted "dog's house" and parts of the Launch tube assembly; pictures from a few weeks ago. The launch tube was actually made indoors at the Overloon museum. Tube was heated with a torch and than formed around a piece of large diameter tube. The process actually looked a lot like making springs. A jig was used to align the different parts of the Assembly tube in order to weld them together.

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Last weekend was an important one for the Conger project. The Conger was moved from the exhibition area in the museum to the workshop again. Actually the carrier spent almost two years in the exhibiton area. During that period no serious work could be done on the carrier. In stead all of the parts that needed to be reproduced, were built separately.
Nothing too serious, but I have to say that I was very nervous for the actual fitting of the Dog's house in the carrier. Yes, I did do some proper measurements before drawing every part in a CAD program, but.....you never know...and because the thing was made from 8mm steel plates. I was very afraid that the guys had to cut material to make it fit. In the end everyhting went find and the project starts to look like a Conger carrier again!

I hope you like seeing these progress shots as much as I do.

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hello Everyone and a happy new year!

Below you will find some pictures of the current status of the Overloon Conger; the hose-box is nearly done and the plumbing has come a long way as well. 2009 will be an important year for this project.....it needs to be finished before the end of it!

@ Nigel. When is the deadline for pictures for your third volume? I will try to arrange to pull the Conger out in the sun for some pictures.

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

I just received word that the Conger has been added to the exposition again! Hurah! After months of work the project is about done; just some lettering, accessories and possible replacement of little components.

Over the past two weeks the hose up front was fitted, the firing box was finished, the hand paint work sanded down and a fresh coat of paint sprayed on.

The carrier was "carried" from the workshop to the exposition, rather than "driven" on it's own tracks, to avoid stress on the track-pins.

I will be taking a look myself in the next few weeks.

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

DONE!!!

A few weeks ago we visited the Overloon museum to see how the last stage of the Conger restoration turned out and to see the finished vehicle in the exposition, rather than the workshop. My good friend Tim Böhme, a car race photographer, who also has a great interest in WW2, came along for the ride.

This thread started with the sentence “The greatest challenge will be bringing the Conger back as close to its original configuration as possible, within the museum’s budget”

Funding these sorts of projects always is a great struggle for a museum, especially when you consider that they are only possible when enough entrance tickets are being sold. So, in stead of ordering all the parts outdoors, most of them were fabricated indoors; with a lot of ingenuity and hard work the 8mm steel plates were produced, as well as the launch tube, plumbing etc. This meant that the project took longer than the projects the museum is used to, but the staff was very patient and also very determined to do this sole Conger survivor justice.
I think the volunteers at the museum really did a great job and it shows what can be done with a limited budget. Together with them we turned a section of the museum into a small photo set. Tim took a series of pictures, three of which are displayed below.

Soon the Conger will get a sign next to it, but visitors that day were already very interested in this unusual vehicle....especially when they heard that we believe it is the sole survivor of the 5 or 10 (?) vehicles initially converted by Chubb in Wolverhampton.

I will post an impression of the 3D CAD work I did for the project in the next few days. This will give an idea how we determined location of fasteners and some of the measurements.

A big thanks to all the MLU members that helped with suggestions, pictures, expert advice, information etc. A special thanks to Nigel Watson who helped us to find the original provisional working instructions!

Please enjoy the pictures!




Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Attached you will find two screenshots of the Conger 3DCAD computer-model. It's basically part of the carrier, with the most significant Conger parts all drawn in the actual size, using Solidworks, which I basically use dayly at the Design office.

Initially Nigel Watson provided us with the "provisional working instructions" of the Conger, along with two of the illustrations that came with them. At a later moment Nigel was able to find the other illustrations as well. Some illustrations were 2D scale drawings which could be used directly to manufacture missing parts, while other drawings were pretty basic views, which were not to scale. We had a side and a top view of the Conger showing the armoured "dog-house", but no rear or front view, so we weren't able to determine the correct angle of the plates.

This is where the original period pictures came in, along with a number of pictures of the Overloon carrier, when it still had the superstructure. The CAD-model was built up using measurements of the carrier and the remaining Conger features. Combined with the measurements from Nigel's info, this gave us a good start. To determine the correct angle of the dog-house and the position of bolts etc. I placed screenshots of the CAD model onto original pictures in Photoshop. This enabled us to determine the missing measurements and also ensured the bolts and other fasteners were in the correct position.
The last two pictures give an idea what this looks like.

regards,

Alex

[eddy8men]

while recently reading a thread on another forum I got to thinking about congers and that I had intended to recreate a conger setup using my bren carrier and my Churchill avre but the reality is I may never get to do it the good news is I have an original conger towing frame and I think it would look best on the overloon conger so I would like to donate it. could someone get in touch and let them know. I could take it to Stoneleigh and pass it on to one of the dutch guys.

cheers

rick