Mystery wheels

[Glen Plumridge]

Hello, first post, just easing in to the carrier scene.

Have seen these wheels and was told they were carrier wheels but I am not so sure.

They appear too wide, measuring 95mm or 3.75 in wide at the steel rim.
Everything else appears to be similar to a carrier but these would be too wide to use wouldn't they.

Diameter is around 19 inches including the remoulded polyurethane "rubber".
Any thoughts?


https://image.ibb.co/kEsHYA/20181022-085410.jpg

[Lynn Eades]

LP2 or LP2A Australian pattern carrier.
Welcome aboard Glen

[Glen Plumridge]

Thanks Lynn.

Good to know they are there if I need them.

[Lynn Eades]

If those wheels are too wide, do you have a British carrier lined up?

[Glen Plumridge]

If it all works out (fingers crossed and touch every bit of wood I see) there is an LP2 and a riveted british MK1 at the place I am going to this week.

Both are chopped down and the running gear is spread about so I will see what is there.

I thought the wheels were too wide because of the lip distance away from the spoke, not thinking that they may just be mounted the "wrong" way around, and h aving read that the track horns are 3.5" on Aust track and 2.5" on Brit and Canadian track.

Is the rubber supposed to taper toward the track and narrow a little to fit in between the track horns neatly? Or is it a square profile in section?

Still learning all about the carriers and the variety of methods used in their manufacture.

[Lynn Eades]

Yes glen, they taper in. Some of the wide ones have a radiused rebate in the sides. The front ones have lower profile rubber on the front wheels and there were some with no rubber at all (Aust. pat.)also on the front (adjustable) axle.
Also there were some 5 spoke (U section) LP2/2a wheels. Wheel bearings are interchangeable between the two types (northern hemisphere and southern hemisphere carriers)
I was going to suggest you quickly get yourself of to the doctors, but I'm not sure there's a cure for this disease?
A single high dose of lead works, but it's considered very drastic.

[Glen Plumridge]

Oh yeah. Starting to feel the symptoms alright.

The plan of going to look at the pair is on hold till next week now.
The guy with the carriers needs to attend to a family issue this week so I need to hold it together for another week or so.
Maybe I didn't touch enough wood.

Just got to be patient, but I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas.

All the lead I have will be saved for the track plugs I hope to do.

He has a large amount of track laying around but I'm not sure how much of each type as I only have some photos he sent so far and they are not clear enough to pick many details.


Those re treaded ones were square and wider than a track would take because they were used on a heavy trolley I suppose.
Should be able to reshape them if I do get them.

Thanks for the learning.

[Lynn Eades]

You will be able to get them re profiled in a lathe.

[Glen Plumridge]

Next lot of silly questions.
I am sure the manuals would probably tell me this, when I get them, but while I am waiting for that info I have been reading posts here for educational purposes but there is some general info that I have not yet seen discussed in depth.

I understand the ford V8 engine is the same as used in the CMP trucks apart from some sump and minor differences depending on the year but.....

Is the Ford 4 speed gearbox in the carrier the same as the gearbox in the CMP Ford blitz trucks? (Do they operate a separate transfer case to get the 4WD function??) Or is it a separate model of "truck" gearbox that is used in the carrier?

Will the trucks radiator work in the carrier with its more restricted air flow? I know the lower outlets are not in the correct position but is there anything else that prevents the truck radiator from being usable, or is the carrier radiator a specific animal that needs to be sourced?

I am sure I will have other questions as time goes on.

[Tony Smith]

Broadly speaking (particularly for Australian LP Carriers), Yes the gearbox "is the same as used in the CMP trucks apart from some output shaft and minor differences depending on the year"

Ford didn't really have a variety of gearboxes to choose from in the 30's and 40's. There was only one design (actually a Warner Gear design) of 4 speed, but it could be altered for different applications with different input and output shaft arrangements, or external attachments like the rear mounting feet or speedo cable output position. The Carrier of course has a remote gear change, but this just utilises a modified Truck gear lever.

Some of the specific attachments for Carriers though can be hard to find, so unless all the bits come with the carrier, converting a regular Truck box may not be that straightforward.

[Glen Plumridge]

So they are not as straight forward as Jeeps are then.

Is there a resource available anywhere that lists the variations across all of the builders or is it more a matter of experience and discussion with the collective brains trust.

Some of the reference books that seem to be hard to find maybe?


Hoping there is engines and g/boxes with the pair I plan to go see, but just in case, I may be looking for parts before too long.

[Ron Pier]

Apart from the parts list and workshop manual for your particular UC. The other best source of reference and information will be Nigel Watson's books. I guess most of us will have them and there will no doubt be other means to purchase them. http://www.universalcarrierbook.co.uk/

Ron

[Glen Plumridge]

Sadly all 3 volumes are unavailable according to his web page.

2 copies of volume 3 on ebay UK for a lot of money.

[Luke R]

The engine block in the Blitz will have to be modified if you want to plumb in the carrier oil cooler.

[Ron Pier]

Originally Posted by Glen Plumridge

Sadly all 3 volumes are unavailable according to his web page.

2 copies of volume 3 on ebay UK for a lot of money.

Hmmm! Vol 3 is probably the least needed of the three. So tracking down vols 1 or 2 depending on your carrier would be the best option.

I guess Nigel has made his fortune and retired young. Tee Hee! Ron

[Glen Plumridge]

All info is appreciated thanks gents.

I do know of one carrier engine at a mates place who does up ratrods for people.
May be able to swap them for a standard flathead if I am lucky.


If anyone is in the Hunter region this weekend drop in to the Clarencetown swim in.

https://www.facebook.com/clarencetownswimin/

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Glen Plumridge

So they are not as straight forward as Jeeps are then.

Is there a resource available anywhere that lists the variations across all of the builders?

Well, seeing as Jeep gearboxes were only used in Jeeps, that's not too surprising is it?

Which type of Carrier are you looking at? British UC, Canadian UC , or Australian LP?

There is a repro getting around of the Australian Carrier Parts List that lists the different types of output shafts, muff couplings and gearbox mounts that were used in LP2 and LP2A Carriers, but these weren't specific to an individual maker, they were used across all factories during different periods.

[Andrew Rowe]

Talking about the Local Pattern Ford G/ Box, the only real difference is the rear mount that bolts to the back of this. This is a specific part for the Carrier as the height from the underside to the center of the output shaft is something like 135 mm , ( or could be 145 mm would have to check ) and is critical. I have plenty of spare ones if you need one. You can also find a few differences of the appearances of casting features on the top lids, for handbrake truck mounts etc. , and whether the box was of English manufacture and not Canadian / USA.
The coupling used was only two types, for LP, the later "upgraded " version was the 8 - point one, Cheers Andrew.

[Glen Plumridge]

Nope Tony, looks like it ain't as simple as a jeep unfortunately.

There is a MK1 british that looks like it has had all of the side plating used as wear plates in some hoppers. it has the track tool brackets on the glacis plate if that can help date it.

As well as an LP2a (I suspect) that has been bath tubbed, that has the steering gear still in it and the diff still attached. But I haven't seen any brake drums or sprockets in the photos.

The gent who has them has owned them for 50 years has utilised parts in the mine machinery systems he built over the years but, now he is clearing up the site he would rather see them go to restoration rather than the scrappies.

I only have a few blurry pics at this stage and not much other info about what is laying around loose.
His son in law who put me on to these thinks there is still engines etc there somewhere, so hoping he is right and there might be a couple of deconstructed carriers laying there.

Hoping to get out there next week to see whats on offer.

Andrew, I might take up your offer of the rear mount once I see whats in the pile of bits that I hope to obtain.

[Glen Plumridge]

Question re, British steering wheels.

Were they made in full circle and/or half circle versions?

Just got one with a half wheel style and not sure if it's original or a bush repair job.














Also picked up an LP2A at the same place.









Both need a lot of work, but it's a start anyway.

[Glen Plumridge]

Also, are these British brake hubs and sprockets?

These are part of a modified axle assembly that was apparently made using carrier parts after the war. I have not checked to see if the sprocket is the same as the carrier ones as yet but maybe the brake drums would identify it if it is British?

[Glen Plumridge]

LP2A is Sth Aust Rlway

number 4425 from what I can see

No identifying marks on the Brit one seen as yet, the spot where it would be stamped is gone. But there are remnants of painted number 909 (I think) behind the gunners seat.

[ajmac]

Although the drums are too small a diameter to be from a Loyd carrier, the curved plates which are used instead of nuts for the sprocket bolts look like those used on the rear axle of a Loyd. Drums look standard Universal Carrier. Look at the front face for numbers and dates.

[ajmac]

Looking at the overall axle width I’d actually say that whole assembly is from a post war Loyd crawler tractor.

[Glen Plumridge]

Just checked some photos of Loyd crawler tractors and the body work on them does look the same as what I had to remove from the axle.

The fuel tank on those is the same as the ones I have seen there as well.

Wondering now if there is any demand for them to restore the tractors, rather than me pulling it apart for spares. It would be a shame to destroy something that's valuable to someone.


Casting numbers on the part that the sprocket bolts to appear to be BS600 and 1945

[Lynn Eades]

How many teeth on the sprocket please.

[Glen Plumridge]

Not physically in front of it at the moment but can confirm the tooth count in a few days.
The only pic I have is not clear but it is around 35 teeth same as a carrier.

[Glen Plumridge]

Picture of sprocket in question
It' a bit hard to count the teeth underneath.

[Glen Plumridge]

Sprocket is a 35 tooth, so will work for the Brit carrier.

After 3600 + km of traveling back and forward this past week ferrying trailer loads of parts everything from out west is back at my place.

The LP2A will be the focus of my effort initially.
First step is to clean out around 50kg of dirt from the floor.





After cleaned and washed out



Need lots of parts so if anyone has bits for sale in Australia please let me know. I will put a WTB ad in the correct forum with a list.

[Glen Plumridge]

Sadly nearly all of the suspension units have been cut to bits and mounted on various conveyor and rotator drums at the opal mine over the past 50 years.



So I will either need them from other vehicles or will have to reproduce the trailing arms and pivot lugs.


I did get a lot of track. Most all of it is Australian.
Only had a little bit of Brit track left because it was used as drive chain on equipment which you can see in the rotator pic.