FWD HAR-01

[Neil Ashley]

At the weekend I inspected a FWD HAR-01 on behalf of the MVT.

The owner requested that I posted the vehicles details and request any further information on this vehicle type other than that already contained in Wheels and Tracks number 5.

Details of the Truck are as follows (see attached pictures).

Data Plate inside drivers door reads:-
GL. Mk 111 CANADIAN - REL
Truck - No.3
Assembly No. - ZC/C2675
Serial No. - 305
Supply Mechanical 2828

Engine Plate Reads:-
Model - 6B770C
No. - 518196

Stencilled on doors:-
L8735454
Z3-shed 18B
SPLY/ES3/RIB
SPBSC2354

The truck was purchased in 1947 for use in a timber yard in Wiltshire. The truck was subsequently disposed of and the original owner has now purchased it back for restoration.

He is trying to find some manuals for the truck, a pair of head lights and a body. Also details of appropriate war-time markings for this truck would be appreciated (presumably Royal Artillery).

I am trying to find the location of the Chassis number which is necessary for first registration. Can any one help with this or is it already on the data plate under a different name?

For reference this owner has been discussed before on the other FWD thread and used to own several FWD's of various types.
He still owns a GMC Tank engine which used to power his saw mill.

[Alan Brock]

Neil,

Have been looking at your pictures of the FWD.
In case you didn't know the meaning of the data plate ;
GL Mk111, Canadian,
Truck number 3,
Assembly ZC/C2675

Well, the vehicle was used for towing the Canadian version of the Gun-Laying (GL) Radar Mk3. This radar was carried in 2 trailers, one each for receiver and transmitter. A third trailer was used to tow the generator, a 15kVA Lister or similar.
The towing vehicles would probably have specialist bodies for carrying all the crew and kit associated with the radar setup.
Your vehicle was truck number 3, but what it actually towed I do not know.
ZC/C2675 is a radio/electrical stores part number and may have indicated what it towed or additional equipment stowed inside the vehicle, I don't know for sure .
The trailers were quite heavy and would have required a sturdy towing vehicle, other vehicles designated for the task were the AEC Matador and Albion CX22S.
The British version of the GL3 was carried in just one trailer and weighed 9.5 tons ! ( I have 2 which I am hoping to restore) . This combination only needed 2 towing vehicles.
Hope this is of interest to you.
Alan Brock

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Neil
I have the original parts book listed on my site..
Contact me off line for details,if interested.
Disregard the price shown..it's from 1942..

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Alan Brock
Neil,

Have been looking at your pictures of the FWD.
In case you didn't know the meaning of the data plate ;
GL Mk111, Canadian,
Truck number 3,
Assembly ZC/C2675

Well, the vehicle was used for towing the Canadian version of the Gun-Laying (GL) Radar Mk3. This radar was carried in 2 trailers, one each for receiver and transmitter. A third trailer was used to tow the generator, a 15kVA Lister or similar.
The towing vehicles would probably have specialist bodies for carrying all the crew and kit associated with the radar setup.
Your vehicle was truck number 3, but what it actually towed I do not know.
Hope this is of interest to you.
Alan Brock

Also see the thread on Radar Trailer

[Neil Ashley]

Thanks for the replies. I will convay them to the owner.

Can some one with the Chilwell B vehicle list look up the number
(L8735454) please as if correct it does not fit into the ranges quoted by Bart in his article.

Also I still need to know where FWD stamped the chassis numbers on their vehicles.

I am assuming that the other numbers on the doors refer to the depot where it was stored.

Does anyone know if there are any other survivors in the UK?

[Alan Brock]

Neil,
There is an FWD HAR-1 for sale on Milweb, advert dated 4 Nov 2005

Alan Brock

[Neil Ashley]

Alan

There are a number of FWD HAR-1 in circulation, but I am not personaly a where of any other HAR-01 in this country.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Neil Ashley
Can some one with the Chilwell B vehicle list look up the number
(L8735454) please as if correct it does not fit into the ranges quoted by Bart in his article.

Neil,

The B vehicle census book only goes up to 23 Nov 1944 and last number is 6277385.

It may be that the first three digits are wrong? The nearest to it is Lorry 3ton 4x4 GL MkIII Equipment, no's L4785291 to 4786090 under contract no. SM2828
.

Richard

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Neil..
I tryed to respond to your e-mail but it bounced..
Here is the e-mail answer...

Your message

To: @wiltshire.gov.uk
Subject: Re: FWD HAR-01
Sent: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 11:28:45 -0000

did not reach the following recipient(s):

on Wed, 9 Nov 2005 11:29:00 -0000
The recipient name is not recognized
The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=gb;a=
;p=wiltscc;l=CORPSRV00040511091129WRYGZHTS
MSEXCH:IMS:WiltsCC:Wiltshire:CORPSRV0004 0 (000C05A6) Unknown
Recipient


Hi Neil
No details of numbers other than part numbers..in the parts book..
The maintenance manual has that info ,but I don't have it..I have the SU-COE parts and maintenance manual so when I compare the parts one for one on the HAR and The COE,I get different part numbers ,for instance when I compare steering boxes ,for example,and frustratingly the darned part numbers are only one # apart for identical looking parts..maybe more robust on the COE...
There are two frame lengths on the COE...
They are 34"wide...7" frame rail height and 236"and 241" long..
That is out of the COE Maintenmance manual so the details are in the HAR-01 Maintenance manual if you can run one of those down..
And on the first page of the parts manual it says...."When ordering parts,allways give the chassis number".
And that is it...NO more info on chassis numbers ..
Hope this is of some value to you.
Stay in touch if he needs the parts manual..
Alex

(I deleted your name and e-mail address for this posting..)Thanks to Jif and MLU we can still communicate..

[BEN-RIPPINGHAM]

hi folks

i am currently restoring an fwd har-1, but have a workshop manual for an har-01. £40 and can take to Malvern. 07799113016
after 6pm if interested. p.s i would pay a good price for a parts manual for my truck if anyone out there has one.


cheers

ben rippingham

[Les Freathy]

Dont know how this will print, this one found its way in to yhe US logging industry

[Tony Smith]

A FWD-HAR is still clinging to a shaky existance in the Australian scrub, despite not having run for years and having been cannabalised for parts. The diffs were apparently a weak point on these vehicles, and this truck is missing the whole complete rear axle, although it appears mechanically complete otherwise with a few small items missing from the Waukesha engine. The body is missing a few panels and the doors, but is remarkably rust-free.

[Tony Smith]

As mentioned in the link in post #8 above, the Australian Army used the FWD-HAR as a part of the "Radar Train", which consisted of 2x FWD-HARs and a Chev C60L CMP towing ZP-I and APF radar trailers and a Generator. There are now 3 known APF radar trailers in the area, so maybe it follows that there are some more HARs to be located?

[Tony Smith]

Some more pics:

[Keith Webb]

Any pictures of the treasure in the background?

It's sad to see a FWD in such straits. There are too few of these in captivity.

I can remember back in the 70s in sawmill country they were always known as "Waukeshas" as nobody knew the correct name I suppose.

[aj.lec]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Any pictures of the treasure in the background?

.

Exactly
Do they want to get rid of it ?

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

[Any pictures of the treasure in the background?

In the background? Where? Oh, THAAAT!!!

Yes, also patiently waiting for the Resurrection is a Ford F60L with a Cab 11 or 12. I don't know what internal ID points there are to ID the cab type, and much of the front cowl is gone for my usual points of recognition. There's not a lot left on this one, it's basically a cowl and chassis.

[aj.lec]

It is a cab 12
Has hinges for the hood

[Tony Smith]

Although it has escaped the attention of the Scrap Metal merchants over the last few hectic years, it's clear that someone has been picking the body clean. The bones are scattered around the place with most of the good stuff gone or rusted on solid.

All the dots and dashes on the chequerplate floor are sharp and crisp with no wear, indicating that this truck might not have seen a lot of work.

[Ganmain Tony]

After seeing a lot of cab 12's in this sort of state

Its a miracle someone didnt alter the floor in some way.

That is WELL WORTH grabbing - someone......anyone!!!

[aj.lec]

message sent

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

My notes for the Chevrolet CMP that operated with the 'train' say:

THIS WAS FOR THE 1943-SUPPLIED CANADIAN RADAR TRAIN: 1. FWD HAR-01 GS WITH GENERATOR SET + 5-TON 4-WHEELED TRAILER RADAR A/A NO.3 MK.1 OR “APF TRAILER” AND 2. FWD HAR-01 GS + 5-TON 4-WHEELED TRAILER RADAR A/A NO.4 MK.1 “P1 TRAILER”; 3. CHEVROLET C.60 [L?] WINCH TRUCK WITH CABLES.

My info has it that the cenus numbers for the FWDs were:

L 4688568 to 4688571
L 4688575 to 4688580
L 4688584 to 4688587

and
L 4785291 to 4786090

[Tony Smith]

Another FWD HAR for sale in the western suburbs of Sydney:

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/st-cl...ary-/357004448

ARN on the bonnet looks to be 147564, which is close to, but not within, the range of numbers listed of other Australian "radar Train" numbers in THIS THREAD.

[Philliphastings]

Hello Tony it may interest you to know that the late Bob Dimer's fully restored FWD Har is currently for sale and being advertised here at the Corowa Rally.

Why restore when you can buy such a good example.

I can pass on details to anyone who maybe interested

cheers

Phill

[Mike Cecil]

Tony wrote :'ARN on the bonnet looks to be 147564, which is close to, but not within, the range of numbers listed of other Australian "radar Train" numbers in THIS THREAD'.

The numbers I listed on that thread were examples and not a complete list: the range 147564 to 147573 is another small 'bunch' of radar units, and their FWD tractors (though they are described as being 'Autocar Model HAR!), and Chev cable carriers. 147564 was indeed, a radar unit tractor.

Mike C

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Pass this truck a couple of times a year up in the hills, no idea what it is. Has fold out wind screen, RH drive, Waukesha engine, 4x4. I'm sure this was also "running when last used" as they say in the adverts... That would be the dash board sitting on the bumper.
Could be post war, but maybe not.
FWD?
Any ideas?
Rich.

[Tony Smith]

FWD HAR-1 with hard-top cab.

These trucks (originally RHD) came to Aust as part of the Canadian Radar Train to tow the Radar Van as used as the Corowa HQ!!

[David Herbert]

Certainly FWD, the axles are very distinctive. I have no idea what model. I thought HAR1 had bolt on wheels.
What a shame it is so far gone.

David

[Tony Smith]

More discussion HERE.

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

Quick and accurate ID, I thank you gentlemen.
It has been in this state for quite a few years, does not seem to be losing any more pieces than when I first saw it.
Shame it is as it is, but on the other hand, it is always nice to see it still there as I go past.
Maybe one of the moderators could tack it on to the discussion as linked by Tony?
Rich.