AUS Carrier radio/wireless

[Darren Witty]

Can anyone help with the type of radio fitted to AUS carriers and drawing or pictures of that radio in the carrier?

Thanks

[Mike Kelly]

For home theatre use they were usually fitted with the No. 11 set ( Aust.) of which, approx. 6000 were built by AWA in Sydney , beginning late 1941 and on into 1942. The LP carriers despatched to the Middle East would possibly also have been fitted with British sets eg, the No. 11 and 19 , while in use there.

Before making the 11 set, AWA was manufacturing the 101 field set ..don't know if it was ever installed in a carrier ...probably was done on a ad hoc basis.

I have seen a AWM pic of a 109 set , 1500 made by STC Sydney 1939-42, in a LP1 carrier , but only in a training role. Type in 'rokeby' in the AWM pic search engine and you'll see it.

The 11 set required a 12v supply and I dont know how they managed that in the carriers ..does anyone know ?

mike

[Jordan Baker]

Wouldn't they have used two seperate batteries and just hooked them up to provide 12v.

I know in Cnd Carriers that the radio batteries were seperate from the vehicle battery and that two were used.

[Darren Witty]

Thanks for the info. That's good news because I have a #11 ready to install. I know that some of the later Aust. carriers had hinged covers that were mounted on the carrier to cover the radio but I don't know how the radio is mounted, if it sits up with dials/instruments facing up or inwards towards the motor. None of the carrier manuals seems to mention mounting radios. Does the #11 manuals show that radio mounted in an AFV?

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Darren Witty

. Does the #11 manuals show that radio mounted in an AFV?

The 11 set was originally a UK design and over there, it was installed in AFV's of various types from around 1939 on. The UK 11 set manual was reprinted here in Australia , I have a copy . As far as Aust. is concerned ,some UK sets were probably aquired in the M.E. and also a few would have been sent out for AWA to look at .

The AWA set is a poor copy and was heavier , using steel cases as opposed to the Uk set with aluminium cases. The 11 set Aust manual doesn't mention LP carriers from memory, but it doesnt mention other vehicles either. The AWA set was used in New Guinea and other Islands.

The 11 set was also manufactured in Canada ..but very few were made there going by the number of surviving sets.
Mike

[Mike Kelly]

The UK 11 set manual printed in Sydney .. date of reprint is 42 I think . The BEF took many of these sets to mainland Europe ..virtually none came back.

Mike

[Philliphastings]

Hello Darrin and Mike,

I am certain that when fitted to Australian Carriers, the No 11 set faced inwards - towards the operator, with the armoured cover over the top and held down with a strap.

I seem to recall having seen a diagram of the fitting in a manual somewhere, I may even have a copy stuffed in a drawer some place if you are patient.

The bolt holes in your carrier hull should be an indicator of whether the No11 set carrier frame was mounted to the sponson direct or via a sub frame as in the british carrier. I can measure the existing frame in my Scout carrier if you need to make one up - quite simple in design.

Cheers

Phill

[Philliphastings]

Hello all,

Have found the installation drawing for No 11 set into Aust Carrier.

As Jordan incicated there was a frame fitted to the right (toward the rear of the carrier) of the No 11 set into which two battery boxes fitted and were held down with captive brackets.

The set mounts with the power supply above, just under the armoured cover.

The diagramme also shows the antenna mount on the rear of the engine intake scoop and all the other little weld on bits for the installation kit. as well as part numbers.

If you are patientI can send you a photocopy after Easter. I have no idea where the info came from. It is a copy of one undated page with no other reference and my memory isn't what it used to be.

Cheers

Phill

[Big D]

Hi all,

I realise this is an old thread but did anyone get their hands on a picture of the layout of the wireless set up in the Australian carriers?

I have an RAAF wireless set in my carrier and I'm looking to change it to a more accurate wireless set up.

My carrier is a 1941 build and arrived in the middle east in December 1941. Would either an 11 set or a 19 set be correct for this?

[Darrin Wright]

here is the radio pic from the 1943 Workshop manual.
It indicates a separate battery system to power the radio.

It also states to check the later parts listing for the item details, not sure if I have this.

[Big D]

Hi Darrin,

Thanks for the reply. My carrier is the earlier 1941 model and on that side of the hull I have the Lewis MG magazine box and racks.

The Australian Carrier MG instruction Book shows the layout of the earlier design and the later design with the early design having the Lewis MG box on the driver's side of the hull and the later design having the wireless on the driver's side, as per the picture you've posted.

The manual doesn't appear to show what is on the other side of the hull for the earlier design. This is where the wireless is in my carrier at present (I bought my carrier in restored condition).

Any other thoughts?

[Big D]

Here are the two layouts.

[Euan McDonald]

Colin Jones and I have been working on mountings for the WS11 set into late production carriers. Colin now has an original wireless cradle and plans to do repo sets in his spare time.😀
Pic from Darrins source.

[Euan McDonald]

This is a WS 11 mount

[Big D]

Hi Euan,

Thanks for the post and the photos. That looks like a lovely carrier in the picture.

Can you add any more to the question about the early carriers and whether the WS 11 or the WS 19 is more correct for a carrier that went overseas?

Looking at one of Mike Kelly's posts it looks like either option would/could be correct.

It looks like I need to talk to Colin if I go the 11 set route.

[Darrin Wright]

I have come across a early LP2, hull 444, that had been field modified to take a radio installation. Unsure as to which type of WS as there was not much left of the hull. But it appeared to have had the RH stowage (Lewis cradle, ration & utensil box and heat box) removed. Mounts had been welded on for the crew boxes on the air scoop. This vehicle possibly had a partial LP2A revised rear stowage fit out, but very hard to confirm as there was not much left of the hull.

Radios appear to have only been factory installed mid 1942 onwards. So an early BGC would have had this done around the same time. Even back then, they would have tried to standardised fit out of vehicles.

I have attached some pics to show the unique changes for the radio fit out, and in hind sight, should have taken a pic of the mount points on the RH side.
In the front compartment is a bracket welded to the centre bulkhead for a crew box.
Aerial mount on the RH side rear of air scoop (MG anti-aircraft mounting point)
2 x holes in airscoop, either side of engine cover, for routing of radio cables.
LHF side of engine cover, crew box mount.
Radio rack on RH side hull, rear compartment,
To protect the radio, armoured cover with skirt that is secured in position by either a strap on clamp (same as on engine cover side panels)

I would be interested to know what hull number you have Big D. Also what hull features in place for a WS installation, or do you wish to install a WS?

A LP2 had all the internal stowage mounted on the RH side rear of the hull, this left the LH side rear of the hull free. As per the Instruction Book. Free for what? crew members, additional kit or the possibility of a radio.

But the addition of a radio on this side would have required additional modification to the WS equipment and some form of modification to the hull of the BGC to safely secure a WS installation (early form of OH&S, even back then) and route the cables so they would not become damaged.

When did the WS become standard to units and fitted to BGC?

It was documented in the 1943 workshop manual, unsure if there is an earlier manual with reference to this.
The Instruction Book, dated 31 July 1943, section 11 makes reference to a radio on the RH side rear hull. It depicts the brackets for the radio tray and armoured cover.
The Part Book, dated 31 Aug 1943 list all parts for the WS 11 fit out, page 96 & 97.

Even in todays Army, a lot of equipment if 'fitted for' but not actually fitted with, this is due to lack of funds and increasing the flexibility of what we have.
So even back then, BGC fitted for may not have been fitted with, due to a lack of WS in the system.

I think the WS 11 would be more correct as it is referenced in the literature for the BGC.

[Big D]

Hi Darrin

The hull number on this one is 1056. It was mostly restored when I got it and the chap who did the restoration put an RAAF radio in it. I'm not sure whether he was working off drawings or photos or just figured that is where a radio should have been.

He may have also been working off what was already on the hull. I can't really say what the hull and fittings looked like beforehand. I've posted a couple of photos of the hull pre-restoration but they are not great quality so not sure what you can make of them.

I have sourced a few WS19 sets from Europe and I figured I would replace the radio in the carrier, providing the WS19 could be correct.

[Mike Kelly]

The radio set in that carrier is a ATR2B ( Aust. Transmitter Reciever 2B ) . I had a few of them at one time . They were made by Radio Corporation, Melbourne, for the RAAF . A neat HF transmitter/receiver . I did use one briefly on a ham band . Mike

PS link to more info http://www.vk2bv.org/museum/atr2b.htm

[Darrin Wright]

I was under the impression WS19 was used in British & Commonwealth armoured units & tanks, so it may have been possible for BGC in those units to have been field modified to carry the WS19.

Your BGC is neat & tidy and looks quite correct without the radio.
The blank/vacant/empty section on the LR rear hull is correct, that is how they were designed.

[Mike Kelly]

This is the repro 11 set frame , my friends in the UK made it from scratch , they did a fantastic job . They made the dies for pressing out the countersunk holes in the frame

[Big D]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies. So the consensus seems to be either no radio, or an 11 wireless set.

What do you make of the aerial mount I have on this carrier? It appears made for a WS19 or similar aerial base. Is this mount something likely to have been adapted from another vehicle by the chap who restored this carrier, or was it a mod fitted to carriers in the field?

The chap who restored the vehicle seemed fairly meticulous and I'd be surprised if he put something on it without any historical research or other basis, but then I guess you never know...

Any thoughts?

[colin jones]

Here is the set I got with the original mount in very, very good condition. It is quite an easy replication having such a good original to copy from. Darryl, I don't think the aerial mount looks correct at all and I'm sure they would never have been mounted on the rear wing but there are others that would have more accurate info I'm sure. Very nice looking carrier all the same.
Colin

[Big D]

Hi Colin

Thanks for that. Yes, after talking to some more of the resident experts I agree you are right on the aerial mount. Thanks to all for the assistance.

That is a great number 11 set you have there Colin.

[Big D]

Hi Darrin

Here is the picture of that cover.