Steering, brake fade

[kevin powles]

Ross, Great notes there, a lot of time and trouble posting the info.......boy yes don't catch your fingers when rotating the hub .......boy it hurts!...even with gloves....ouch!.

[Lynn Eades]

Yes, I agree with Kevin! A great reference thread now. Thank you Michael!
Is there a page in one of the manuals, that shows the tool dimensions?

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Is there a page in one of the manuals, that shows the tool dimensions?

Ross shows a handrawn set of drawings in post #25 in this thread. However, if you look at pages G5 and G3, you can deduce the dimensions that are critical.

[Michael R.]

The Windsor carrier has adjustable outer bell crank stops. As well, the long rods are fitted with return springs.

Does Lynn mean the gauge blocks drawing? Note these do not apply to the Windsor.

[Michael R.]

brake pages from Maintenance and Repairs

[Michael R.]

Steering pages from MnR

[Michael R.]

brake quiz Q&A for drivers.

NOTE: Procedure item (iv)

[RichardT10829]

Pulled the plungers and cleaned them whilst I was on. Found a part number of CGB - 1193 on one plunger and no part number on the other. The plunger with the CGB number on is slightly shorter than the one without ?

The CGB code as I understood it was a special code for parts manufactured to UK spec ?

My carrier is a 42 unit but didn't expect to find any British kit on it.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

Pulled the plungers and cleaned them whilst I was on. Found a part number of CGB - 1193 on one plunger and no part number on the other. The plunger with the CGB number on is slightly shorter than the one without ?

The CGB code as I understood it was a special code for parts manufactured to UK spec ?

My carrier is a 42 unit but didn't expect to find any British kit on it.

As Canadian Carriers are basically a copy of British ones and parts would have had to be interchangeable as much as possible I imagine, the brake expanders and adjusters were Girling brake components, the British Army code prefix for Girling was GB, so the Canadian made parts to British pattern were anointed with CGB. Not British parts but to our design.

[rob love]

CGB is commonly used on Canadian parts which were slightly redesigned from their UK counterparts. It will have nothing to do with Girling, but is more likely to mean Canadian Great Britain.

From another Canadian manual explaining the part numbers prefixes (in this case 40mm guns):

CGB...a) Parts re-designed to suit Canadian production methods not interchangeable with UK couterparts

b) Also, in some cases, these code letters have been utilized in regrouping stores to simplify accounting and storage. In such cases interchangeability will be readily appreciated by a comparison of columns.....

[Michael R.]

Something new... I also associated CGB with Canada Girling Brake.

I have seen the plungers with and without the part numbers. Two different styles of end shapes. Not uncommon to see the slotted end with one side fractured. After using the screw driver method to remove and replace the shoes when the parts are seized, I understand how that can happen.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by rob love

CGB is commonly used on Canadian parts which were slightly redesigned from their UK counterparts. It will have nothing to do with Girling, but is more likely to mean Canadian Great Britain.

From another Canadian manual explaining the part numbers prefixes (in this case 40mm guns):

CGB...a) Parts re-designed to suit Canadian production methods not interchangeable with UK couterparts

b) Also, in some cases, these code letters have been utilized in regrouping stores to simplify accounting and storage. In such cases interchangeability will be readily appreciated by a comparison of columns.....

My memory lapsed when writing that post, GB is the prefix of Girling component part numbers, just double checked one of their own catalogues. Having worked on the brakes of a British made Carrier, they are marked just GB as I would expect. Nothing to do with Gt. Britain as such.

[rob love]

Well now you have me wondering if it is Girling Brake.

The CGB prefix is comonly used in other areas of canadian part numbers. Optics, like the no32 Snipers Telescopes or cases were marked with that prefix when produced in Canada. Canada also used CGB from the original AN part numbers for the Bofors guns. I am sure I have seen that prefix in other areas too. But to look at the Cdn carrier parts manual, I note the GB and CGB prefix is limited to the brake system. Perhaps I stand corrected, and the CGB in the UC parts catalogue is unrelated to the CGB used elswhere in the Canadian system.

[Lynn Eades]

I can't be 100% sure, as I am not home and cannot check, but I think I have a housing that is 1936 dated. This must just about predate the carriers as we know them.

[RichardT10829]

Just about there with the brakes system... I have noticed the near side is still dragging, I went to put the gauge back into the bell crank to find it way off the hull... The only thing left that would do this is the short linkage rod that runs horizontal under the gunners feet. I have withdrawn this from the system and it appears that one set of threads is shorter than the other. The entire rod measures 24" exactly. Is this correct length ? I remember Shaun asking if it was original at the time we first bolted everything up, as he was not happy with it. On a plus side the drivers side works perfectly, just starts to catch at 90deg with then nipped up full when full lock applied... Zero drag on release.

[Ben]

The length needs to be right for you're carrier, it'll be a little different from mine for example. If it needs the clevis wound in a little, just do it.

Glad it seems to be working with a simple solution.

[RichardT10829]

Can anyone with a universal mk1 / mk2 check the length of the rod for me ?

[Lynn Eades]

Rich, I did a thread called "Control rods. riveted U.C."
In there I identified it as a "transverse" rod
It measured 646mm long which included 45mm of thread at each end.

[Michael R.]

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...65&postcount=1

[RichardT10829]

646mm so that puts my current rod 1.5 inch too short.

Gonna need a new rod methinks !

[Petr Brezina]

Richie, I know that this thread is very old, but how did you fix problem with the fading brakes and steering eventualy? Im stuggling with similar issue, still havent found the root cause, everything seems to be OK, but its not, steering is not effective enough.
Michael R - as mentioned bellow, inside hole should be used also on british carriers (I followed AOP manual and used outer hole)? Whats the benefit? I guess better leverage ratio = more pressure applied on the brake pads?

Originally Posted by Michael R.

long rod clevis installed on inside hole Which is inconsistent with the AOP manual ...

Thank you gents

[RichardT10829]

Hey bud, did you use the setting tools to adjust your rod lengths ?

Best advice I can give as an opener is to break the tracks so you can move the drums and feel for any binding etc.

[Petr Brezina]

Hi Richie, yes I did use these tools, ale obeyed the manual, all was properly set up - however I had exactly the same symptoms as you - after few turns and kilometres brakes faded out and I was almost unable to steer. Drums were hot as well.
Last weekend we took out drums and again, everything looked fine, no oil on linings, brake mechanism working ok. I re-set it, drums are perfectly free untill 90°, fully applied at 160°, adjusters set to 4 clicks. However after this allignment brakes are "weak", Im not able to make skid turn, drum is not completely blocked. My lining are not genuine, sometime in the past they were replaced. They are not wowen but from some new rigid brake material, current thickness is about 6-7mm, which is less than wowen originals (about 10mm). However they are contacting the drums on the all surface.
As you were stuggling with the same issue Im wondering how you finally fixed it - maybe it could help me to. Thanks

[RichardT10829]

Ok, go back through the setup, wind the brakes on so they are solid against the drums, (tracks off). Set your linkage lengths and make sure you have lots of pre load in the foot pedal rods (which should be the same length) don’t forget when you set up your parking brake should be off !!

Now, once you have set your linkage lengths, slowly dial off the shoes from the drums, ignore the 4 turn rule for now, just wind them back to the point you can spin the drums by hand, you may find the drums to catch the shoes ever so slightly.

Jump back in and push the foot brake a bunch of times, this will ensure you are not getting parking brake creep and the brake system is balanced, at this point look down to your brake pedal, is the balance bar level ? Are the inner bell cranks the same distance from the main clevis forks at the base of the steering ?

Yes ?

Ok

Now to adjust the bite point, your main clevis at the base of the steering I wind back on the adjusters, now, for me, I turn the steering to 90 deg at which point I am just getting contact onto the clevis…. Repeat for other side.

Pop your tracks back on, take the carrier for a spin. If you can change gear without the carrier wanting to stop your good…. If not dial back one click at a time until you get desired results.

I can video what I do / have learned if it help, try that in the interim though.

[RichardT10829]

Also, your shoes look maybe more than 50% worn, it’s hard to see on my phone, you may need replace them, or put your long rods onto the outer hole on the bell cranks.

[Petr Brezina]

Hi Richie, there are some good hints, I will check all again.
I would say that my shoes are now at 60-70% of the nominal thickness - Im using outer hole because I made setting according to british manual which differs in this point from the canadian.
Thanks for your advices will report the result

[Petr Brezina]

Underwent through whole alignment procedure again and she is turning nicely - see video. Also used now alignment tools, this time more professional
Thanks Richie and Michael R for your hints.

https://youtube.com/shorts/YaatRAQR6...KIkTxSfK6aSUFO

[Mike Gurr]

Handy that this thread surfaced again now. Following a couple of very muddy shows and the feeling that my Carrier just wasn't turning as well as it used to, I have just had my brake drums off to clean out the mud and sand off the glaze from the brake shoes. All went well and I have set the brakes up with the 80 ft lbs then back off 4 clicks which gives exactly what it should with the brakes coming on at 90 degrees of wheel on and full on at around the 160 degrees of wheel. However having put on full left or right wheel the relevant brake sticks on but releases as soon as I press on the brake pedal. I have to take another look at it tomorrow but anyone any ideas?

[RichardT10829]

Clean all the bell cranks and make sure they are free. Check your expanders aren’t full of mud, clean and re grease them. Grease all bell cranks and you should be good to go.

[Mike Gurr]

Indeed it was to clean all the mud out that I took the drums off in the first place. While static with the tracks off I found that after applying either brake fully on I had to turn the steering wheel back to centre and then slightly beyond to free up the brakes. With the tracks back on this does not seem to be a problem and it turns on the spot perfectly. Once stopped I can still push it along by hand so the brakes are not binding. Sorted!