Airborne vehicles

[Gerry McGinty]

I've already posted this on the Carrier forum but haven't come up with anything - maybe the Armour guys can help
Can anyone out there point me in the direction of information on carriers as used by the Airborne Forces both in WWII and after?
I am interested in the special features of such carriers; did the Airborne use different types of carrier etc.
Also and perhaps this should be on the Armour forum anyway, can anyone give me information on Airborne use of the Dingo scout car or any other vehicles (other than the ubiquitous jeep, Tetrach and Locust tanks etc.)
Thanks in advance for any help or information.
Regards
Gerry McGinty


__________________

[Ponysoldier]

After a search I cant find any use of armor in airborne
assaults.I cant even find the carrier being used.
The tetrach and the locust were both designed for
airborne/glider assualts, but the Waco and Horsa
gliders had a miserable fault of breaking apart when
landing with near maxiumn loads destroying/or making
unserviceable its load. There is some mention of the
the Jeep and the 37mm anti tank gun being use in
the Arhemn operation,although few made it.
After WWll the only armor other than the locust that
was light enough to be glider dropped was the Caffee,
but by that time gliders had been dropped as way of
operational delivery of armor.
It was the glider that was the bust, the locust
went out of service in 1947.Korea was a bad location
for any type of glider operation
Patrick
My sources: Yahoo and Google Searchs
Airborne armored assualts.
Cmh(Center for militart History) US. Airborne armored assualts
Should anyone have Any Information on this I welcome
your comments.

[Roger Lucy]

The fate of a Canadian proposal may shed some light on why Carriers do not seem to have been used inm airborne operations. In April 1943, staff at DND's Directorate of Artillery drew up plans for a light-weight, low profile, tracked SP mount to take either a 6-pounder or 75mm gun. The running gear was based on the Universal Carrier, less one road wheel per side. It would be powered by a 60-HP Jeep engine, and carry a crew of two, and 70 rounds of ammunition. Proposed dimensions were 185 inches (l) x 73 inches (w) x 53 inches (h) - 4.6m x 1.85 m x 1.3m. With no more than 20mm of armour, it would weigh some 6,000 lbs. (2,700 kg).

Aside from concerns about whether a two man crew was adaquate, and the gun's limited traverse, the War Office rejected the proposal because it was too wide to fit in a Horsa glider, while the heavier Hamilcars were short supply and ear-marked for delivering tanks. Presumably the same constraints would apply to glider-borne UCs. No prototype wqas built but drawings can be found on microfim C-5793 at the National Archives. The project is covered in more depth in Service Publications' forthcoming Secret Weapons of the Canadian Army.
Roger

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

Hello, there are several pictures of carriers used at Arnhem, I will ask the children to scan some pictures from the books.

Hendrik van Oorspronk

[horsa]

I know there are many books with references to armor being air deployed during operation Varsity in March 1945. This includes written veteran accounts from the time describing a carrier falling though the bottom of a Hamilcar glider on approach due to concentrated AA fire and an armored scout car with bren gun firing as it smashed out of a burning glider.

What exactly are you looking for? Or are you trying to prove or dis-prove that armor was used by the airborne?

[Gerry McGinty]

Hi Guys
Thanks for the interest and the replies.
Basically what I am after is a compilation of the vehicles and/or artillery pieces which were actually used in action by the allied airborne forces in WWII and immediately after - particularly those transported by glider.
As is generally known, they used the Tetrach and Locust, the carrier, the jeep for towing 6 pdr. and 75mm guns and the Morris 'c' 30cwt and Dodge 3/4 ton trucks for towing 17 pdr. guns. What I would like to find out is what special modifications were made to the carriers - I have lots of references to them being used but few pictures and even less description.
Also I have references (and one picture) to the armoured recce. regiments using dingo scout cars but were they air landed or part of the sea-borne tail of vehicles which reinforced after the landings?
Answers to these questions and any other information will be gratefully received.
Regards
Gerry

[Neil Ashley]

Gerry

If you have not already done so, I would also recommend asking your question on www.wwiireenacting.co.uk/forms

There are a lot of British Airborne experts on that forum.

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

Herewith some pictures of carriers at arnhem sept 1944

Hendrik van Oorspronk

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

same carrier from the back

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

The last one is hit by somehing bad.

[Gerry McGinty]

Hendrik - Many thanks for the photos - they are new to me and very interesting - thanks again.
Gerry

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

Hello, looking for something else I came across this picture.

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Hendrik van Oorspronk
Hello, looking for something else I came across this picture.

Hendrick, check out the latest issue of Army Motors. On page 37 there is an I.W.M. pic of a British 6th Airborne Div. U.C., a motorcycle (BSA M20?) and a Hamilcar glider taken in Germany late in the war.


CHIMO!

[Rlangham]

Here's a list off the top of my head of vehicles and artillery used by the Airborne, and also what gliders they were flown in in

Vehicles

Willys Jeep (modified for various uses) - Horsa
Morris C8 Mk 3, airborne (cut down) version (for 17 pdr) - Hamilcar
Clarkair bulldozer - Horsa

Artillery

75mm Pack Howitzer (towed by Jeep) - Horsa
6 pdr anti-tank gun (towed by Jeep) - Horsa
20mm Polsten anti-aircraft gun (towed by Jeep) - Horsa
17 pdr anti-tank gun (towed by Morris C8) - Hamilcar

Armour

Universal Carrier - Hamilcar
M22 Locust light tank - Hamilcar
Tetrarch light tank Mk VII - Hamilcar

As for usage of the light tanks, nine M22 Locusts were carried on Operation Varsity crossing of the Rhine, only four reached landing zone and only two went into action

The Tetrarch was flown into Normandy as part of Operation Mallard, which occured during daytime of D-day, when 29 Hamilcars flew in an entire armoured recon regiment into action, not sure how many Tetrarchs were used but they were included.

[6thairborne]

From the book "Airborne Armour", Keith Flint.

page 47
" The tetrarch and Locust tanks did not require any significant modifications for airborne use, apart from the welding on of some attachment points for lashing the vehicles down for flight. Other vehicles required significant modification for transport in the Hamilcar. The airborne version of the universal carrier was lightened as far as possible, for example by replacing the armoured engine shields with aluminum and removing the back armour plate protecting the rear axle. The side mud shields and step, along with lamps and rear view mirrors, were also removed. (referenced to page 239, Tugs and gliders to arnhem, Van Hees) The Morris C8 30cwt tractor for the 17 pdr had numerous bits of sheet steel bodywork removed to save weight, and the canvas roof and roof supports werer taken off to allow the vehicle to fit into the Hamilcar load bay.

Page 46 list the following as operationally used Hamilcar loads:
Two Universal Carriers
Three Rota Trailers
17 pdr gun with tractor
Universal Carrier (3 inch mortar) and 8 motorcycles
Universal Carrier (slave battery carrier) and jeep
48 panniers containint equipment and ammo
D4 tractor with angle dozer

I will post more when I have time, hope this helps