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#451
06-06-06, 11:24
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Wow ... 3 years
March 2, 2003 ... when I started this thread. I've been here over 3 years now ... and 3 D-Day anniversaries.
This thread has a lot of information about D-Day and the Normandy invasion so I wanted to just bring it up to the top for this D-Day anniversary today to remember all of the men who were there, especially the fallen, and so people can spot it who might like to read some of it. Today I'll be wearing the T-Shirt Geoff brought me back from Normandy 2004 ...  D-DAY, OPERATION OVERLORD, JUNE 6, 1944-2004.  Karmen. 
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#452
08-09-06, 08:23
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Re: Re: Chateau de Audrieu
Quote:
If and when you have time again (knowing how very busy you are these days  ) do you happen to have any information in all your RWR papers on another of the soldiers who was executed with the same group as my uncle???Cpl. Alfred Martin Peterson I've been contacted by a close relative of this soldier who is searching for information, and am trying to help as I can, including going through whatever information I've got to share. Thanks in advance if there's anything at all you can add to her information. Karmen.
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#453
09-09-06, 08:44
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Alfred Martin Peterson
Here is more information Mark, just in case you need it.
Name: Alfred Martin Peterson Sevice #: H/20430 Executed POW: June 8, 1944 (Normandy) Force: Army Unit: Royal Winnipeg Rifles Laid to rest: Cemetery: BENY-SUR-MER CANADIAN WAR CEMETERY Calvados,France NOTE: There is conflicting information about Alfred's rank, it seems. We're trying to find out if he was a Private or a Corporal, or ??? ... perhaps this is a good question to directly ask the Royal Winnipeg Rifles Museum people?  Karmen.
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#454
09-09-06, 09:11
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Hello Again,
THIS from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site lists his rank as "Rifleman": Casualty Details Name: PETERSON, ALFRED MARTIN Initials: A M Nationality: Canadian Rank: Rifleman Regiment/Service: Royal Winnipeg Rifles, R.C.I.C. Age: 31 Date of Death: 08/06/1944 Service No: H/20430 Additional information: Son of Martin and Anna Peterson. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: XIII. F. 10. Cemetery: BENY-SUR-MER CANADIAN WAR CEMETERY, REVIERS Karmen.
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#455
11-09-06, 06:38
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Hi Carman, and all you other members.
I am the relative of Alfred M Peterson that Carman mentioned. I have learned alot just in the few days I have been reading this page. Like Carman I feel very sad when I think about my uncle and the fact that I did not know him. If I ever met him I don't remember as I was born in 1937 and wasn't very old when he died. I would like very much to see a picture of him. Maybe someone has a snapshot of him stored away' His sister Vera had two boxes of old photos stored in a shed with a leaky roof and the picyures were all ruined. Alfred was called Alfie by his family and friends. He was the youngest of six siblings who were raised in Garson Man. My mother was his eldest sister. His parents both died before him. The siblings are all dead now. The family was Swedish, both the parents came from different parts of Sweden but met and married in Winnipeg. Alfie had a brother Fredrick Adolph Peterson who was also in the army. He can home. I think he was wounded. I think he might also have been in the RWR's I don't know for sure. He never wanted to tell anyone his middle name. I can see why. I hope someone had give me more info about my uncles. Also, I want to say thank you again for what I have learned so far. Pauline
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#456
11-09-06, 22:17
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Hi Pauline,
I'm really glad that you found MLU and the information in here, which there's a lot of in this thread, and some other threads. And yes, it really is sad to learn all of the details of the executions and how our Uncle's were murdered, but it's also good to know the truths about what happened before, during, and afterwards, so we can tell our kids and grandkids. It took so long before people knew what happened to their loved ones  Regards your other Uncle, Fredrick Adolph Peterson, if he served with the Royal Winnipeg Rifles, someone at the RWR Museum should be able to check their archives and records to see if his name is listed, and maybe they also have information about his being wounded. I know I sent you some RWR links but I'll put these Museum ones in here too: http://www.mts.net/~rwpgrif/Museum/MUSEUM.htm The Royal Winnipeg Rifles Museum Minto Armoury 969 St. Matthews Avenue Winnipeg, Manitoba R3G 0J7 Phone: 786-4300 ext. 3492 riflesmuseum@shaw.ca Also, if you've read through this thread, you will have seen mention of a book and a Video. The book "Conduct Unbecoming" by Howard Margolian, was mentioned at the beginning of this thread, as was the Video "Take No Prisoners" by WarAmps Cliff Chadderton. I have both the Video and the book, and both go into great detail about all of the prisoners who were executed by the Hitlerjugend in different spots shortly after D-Day. Quote:
The Video "Take No Prisoners", you can get a copy from the WarAmps. Tell them that you are the neice of one of the executed POWS. They may provide you with a complimentary copy as you are a relative? On the Video's page, on the right-hand side, are links to read the script, or view some of the video: http://www.waramps.ca/video/tnop.html http://www.waramps.ca/contact/home.html I need to grab another cup of coffee, and see what else I can come up with to help you in your research I'll be back.Carman aka Karmen
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#457
11-09-06, 23:10
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Hi,
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#458
11-09-06, 23:18
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Beny Sur Mer Cemetery Plan.
Pauiline, your Uncle Alfie and my Uncle Ed are at rest in the same section at Beny Sur Mer Cemetery. In the photo of the cemetery plan, the lowest far right corner is where both our Uncle's are. My Uncles grave is X111. F. 10 Alfies grave is X111. F. 09 I don't know if the "09" and "10" mean "row" or "grave number". If grave number, then your Uncle is right next to mine! Geoff should be able to tell us whether they mean row or grave number, as he was there and visited my Uncles gravesite. I hope he'll jump in here and comment http://198.103.134.15/cm_image/2004600.gif Karmen.
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#459
11-09-06, 23:20
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Hi
I think I just pushed something I shouldn't have, The arthritis makes my fingers clumsy. Sorry I just finished sending an order to the War Amps. to order the video "Take No Prisoners". I will be hitting the local library this week. I did not know they had so much material, I will be ordering more. My son was in Winnipeg and he tried to phone the RWR museum but I see that they are only open on Tues. He was there on the weekend. Thanks again Pauline
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#460
11-09-06, 23:22
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Quote:
 ... (I guess this one didn't do through properly. The forum glitched out on me and was unavailable for a few minutes too. It seems to do that sometimes )
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#461
11-09-06, 23:27
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Carman
This is a surprise , that our uncles might be buried side by side. They just might have known each other. I studied the picture you scanned to see if I could figure out which one was Alfie. I haven't yet. Pauline
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#462
11-09-06, 23:44
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Quote:
"Rifleman Alfred M. Peterson H 20430" Peterson Rapids in the Caribou River 64 /15 (far N middle area of Manitoba directly below NUNAVIT) was named after him in 1995. I'd suggest also emailing the RWR Museum, as well as having called them. Ask them about both of your Uncles in that email. Too bad your son didn't get in to talk with someone while he was there on the weekend I'm also waiting to hear back from Don Zorniak, he is the one who helped me, but I don't know if he's still working in the museum. If he isn't, he can tell me who to talk to that's in charge these days. I know that I had to pre-arrange visiting the museum because they aren't always there, and it's best to set the visit up ahead of time, to be sure you don't arrive there to find no one home in the museum Karmen.
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#463
11-09-06, 23:57
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Quote:
I wonder if they knew each other before the war? They probably trained together. And Garson, I still remember the Granite Quarry along the highway between Beaconia and Beausejour somewhere. Was that Highway 59? My sisters husband is from there too, and my sister Susie is laid to rest in Garson in his family's plot. She passed away last year.Pauline, can your computer handle it if I send you a big file? I have scans of a photo, taken in 4 sections, of the RWR C Company taken in June? 1943. If I sent the 4 sections in one email, would that be too much for your email to upload all at once? (if so, I could send them one email and photo section at a time) Let me know ... after which I'll send the scans to you EDIT by Karmen: I just looked up Garson and it's a "limestone" quarry on Highway 44, not Granite on Highway 59 Karmen.
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#464
12-09-06, 02:34
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Carmam.
hold off sending the picture because my printer is on a sit down or a hunger strike. I think it is tired of the taste of paper. Anyway it is not working and I just bought two new ink cartridges. I will find out about that geographical site in northern Man. I was born in Winnipeg and left there for Ontario in 1950 when my mother re-married. That was shortly after the big flood. We lived on Sherbrooke St. The apt. block is still there but smaller than it was. Things always look bigger to a kidI will keep you posted on my progress and my Printer. Pauline
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#465
12-09-06, 03:22
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Hi Pauline,
I've never printed out the photos because I can't either but I do have them on my computer to look at and refer to, which I did a gazillion times trying to identify my Uncle's face (and others) in it . Let me know when you're ready to receive them, or if you've changed your mind and would like to at least have them in your email to save to your computer for looking at I hope you get your printer problem sorted out soon. You mention you have arthritis as well (as do I) and I know for myself, I can't write but a few words by hand, sometimes can't write at all, so a printer is important to me. Right now I can't even write to my daughter/relatives without a functional printer, so I phone them I'm so frustrated without a printer  Karmen.
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#466
12-09-06, 03:24
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Quote:
Just an aside, but every effort was made to bury the Fallen with other members of their regiments; this was comparatively easy when the bodies were recovered from the immediate area of a single action, but bodies moved from other, temporary burial locations were usually reinterred on a space-available basis. Smith and Peterson's remains would have been recovered at the same time with other such victims, hence their relative locations. And yes, Pauline, it's almost guaranteed that they knew each other, although how well is anyone's guess. The Regiment was one large family.
__________________
SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support
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#467
12-09-06, 03:42
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Wow. Thank you so much for your information Geoff. This is amazing that Ed's and Alfie's neices met each other in MLU to know our Uncle's lay side by side!!! MLU, and what happens in here, never fails to astound me in the connections.
I also very strongly suspect that Alfie and Ed did find and know each other through training and coming from the same areas so close to each other "back home". A common bond that drew them together, if they hadn't met each other before serving. I think they probably would have been drawn closely together and gotten to know each other really well!!! And to think that your visit to my Uncle Ed had you standing right next to, and seeing, Pauline's Uncle Alfie's final resting place. I looked at the photos Hanno took, hoping to see the graves either side of Uncle Eddie, to see if Alfie's was in the photos, unfortunately, they weren't visible. Karmen.
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#468
12-09-06, 03:51
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Quote:
I know the soldiers of my Uncle's group had to be re-interred from where they were originally buried. Again, thanks. Karmen
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#469
12-09-06, 06:51
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Thank you Karmen and Geoff for the confirmation that our two uncles are buried side by side. They fought and died together. I was sitting here trying to imagine the horror in that courtyard. I think that those men didn't even get a chance to cry out or even say a small prayer.
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#470
12-09-06, 07:24
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Quote:
Our Uncle's and the rest of the group with them were executed in a field, not a courtyard, but there was another group of soldiers executed in a courtyard location. I think I'll type out some of the information from Howard Margolian's book, "Conduct Unbecoming", Chapter 9, beginning on page 90, entitled "The Mohnke Murders", that tells about the events and what happened to the group of soldiers that our Uncle's were executed with. Please bear with me while I type it out in my word processor then upload it here. Karmen.
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#471
12-09-06, 10:16
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Here is my own little understanding from what I read from that chapter. I do hope I got this correct. If not, I hope someone notices so that I can correct the information:
"The group of 40 prisoners were held in the barn of the “MOULIN” farm where they had been given water and first aid for the wounded soldiers (2 stretcher cases?) and were held for a few hours, until they were brought to the front of the Moulin farmhouse, then formed into columns, under guard and escorted/marched up a footpath to within sight of the Caen-Fontenay Road. They were halted at a road junction just NE and less than a mile from the Village of Fontenay-le-Pesnel. At that point they soon were ordered (Mohnke’s orders but this was never proven for sure that he was the one who ordered it) marched to a grassy area by a grainfield, ordered to be bunched together and all sitting in the field, facing East, the wounded on stretchers in the middle. They weren’t there in the field very long (minutes?) before they were faced by an SS execution troops with “machine pistols” … and fired on, all but five men murdered. Five men at the rear of the group were able to escape during the shooting, but they were soon re-captured by German SS and taken to POW camps, where they were held for months before they were repatriated from POW captivity and were able to tell their stories of what had happened." I find it especially hard to read some details from the book, and from other places of witness statements (the 5 survivors) about those moments. It’s hard knowing details of what the last horrifying and painful moments of my Uncle, and the other men, were like. They were originally being led to be held as POWS, but along comes Mohnke in a raging snit and orders them executed at once, enmasse. Why? I’ve heard it was to teach the Canadian’s a lesson for what will happen for not talking when interrogated. Mohnke was never brought to trial for these murders. He lived free of accountability for the murders. His death recently at age 91. SS-Brigadefuhrer Wilhelm Mohnke, March 15, 1911 – August 6, 2001 Pauline, in your Uncle’s records, you’ll probably receive some pages of witness statements. These brief statements are by the survivors of that event and day. Other things you’ll receive are copies of any telegrams and correspondences between the forces and your parents. I received a photocopy of a letter, handwritten by my Grandfather when Uncle Eddie was still classified as missing. I can’t describe the belly-punch feelings I had when I first saw this copy of the letter knowing I was looking at images of my Grandpa’s actual handwriting and wondering about his fears and hopes, how he must have been thinking and feeling as he wrote that letter about his son, not knowing his fate. How many fathers and mothers went through that? Quote:
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#472
13-09-06, 03:57
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Everyone on the list
There are a lot of things I can not understand about the human race. Many people don't really care how they treat other people but by God. Don't lay a finger on them or theirs! The powers that be draw up all the fancy rules that look good on paper but they don't have any intention of following the rules. This animal that ordered the killing of the RWR prisoners probably would have been the first one to beg for his life if things had been reversed. If all the population of the earth went by the Golden Rule it would be a wonderful world. Some people don't understand what the Golden Rule is. Do You? Pauline
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#473
13-09-06, 18:16
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Hi Everybody
I want to apoligize for my last posting if I offended anyone. I just get so upset when I read about brutality. I almost hate to turn on the tv because that is all you see. I won't post another reply like that again, Promise! Pauline
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#474
13-09-06, 19:05
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Quote:
And now a new generation in the west have gone to war, to learn what others past have known. My heart is with these courageous young men, for they are the conerstone of our civilization. I mourn each lost, but I celebrate all that they stood for, as I do their forebears.
__________________
SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support
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#475
13-09-06, 19:35
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Quote:
I max out on that aspect of life (and the daily news too) believe me. I know I certainly am tired of how human beings cause grief to others, and I know there are many in here with pretty intense feelings about a lot of that too. We all have our limits and everyday, everytime we turn on the news, we get tested it seems. I know I felt a lot like you did when first reading about the executions of our Uncle's. Mohnke WAS an animal, it appears, by some things I've read about him. I wish people, world wide, and especially in our little corners of the worlds where our daily lives and familiies, friends, neighbors, communities, etc, are effected, would just be right, and do right, by each other. I can't stand the news sometimes and sometimes don't turn on the TV for days or even weeks. Yes, we're tested daily by the cruelties. Especially right now with the war on terrorism and the fears in the world. Anyone with conscience and heart is effected. By the way, should you ever want to change any of what you've written in a post, there is an option at the bottom of your posts to "edit". Just click on "edit" to bring that post up to work on it (and I don't say that you should edit your words in that post, because that spirit of yours is the same of many in here!!!) Karmen
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#476
16-09-06, 00:57
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Hi
As I started on this forum later than the rest of you I decided to start at the beginning and read through all the postings. Wow!!! talk about mental images.!!! They are terrible but being there must have been, not only an exercise in physical strength and endurance but also an ability to shut out what was happening around them and concentrate on the job at hand. As I read I started to cool and I just kept getting colder and finally had to quit reading. My stomach hurts. I think I will wait a few days before I read more. Carmin, I wonder if you could look through the Winnipeg Free Press for meand see if you can find Alfie's obit. Did any one on this forum ever know my uncle? Even if it was just to exchange a hi or a good day or a go to hell!! I don't know anything about him. Did he have a sense of humour, a girl friend, a good buddy in the RWR, did he smoke, was he a practical joker? Anything ring a bell? I would appreciate hearing what rings a bell. I am the family historian and geneologist {unofficially and very slow plodder} But i try. I am wanting to have a calendar made for each of my family with a deceased family member's picture for each month. I want my family to know their roots! Pauline
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#477
17-09-06, 05:37
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Quote:
 : I was so disappointed to not get back there because I know for sure that an obituary with his photo was run!!!The old newspapers are all on microfiche and unless you know the date of the paper, it could mean a LOT of scrolling through microf'd copies of papers page by page at the library. I would gladly do that if I could get there. It would be great if there is a newspaper obit that includes a photograph of your Uncle (many of the obits did include photos, given by their family members I expect?) Unfortunately I don't know anyone in Winnipeg who would be willing to volunteer to go looking for our Uncle's obits ... unless some kind soul in MLU knows someone who also searches through the old newspapers and would be willing to have a look for us? By the way Pauline, I'm into the geneology searching too, and it is, in fact, what got me searcxhing for information about Uncle Eddie. I have just gotten back to surfing for geneology info again, and am coming across the St Denis name sometimes (like in old censuses) ... being we're from the same area of Manitoba, I'll be glad to help you in your search while I'm doing mine. Ya never know where information pops up. I may also have some clues for you of others family trees online that might pay off for you. Email me anytime about geneology stuff if you'd like. I've been doing this off and on for a few years now so may be able to help you. Garson and Balsam Bay, Beaconia etc are just spits from each other Regards your Uncle Alfie, maybe someone from the RWR can find out if anyone knew him? They also publish a magazine called the DEVIL'S BLAST in which many still surviving Vets receive and read. Perhaps you could get a post in it and you may get a reply or two from someone who remembers him personally, or who may have a photo??? That's all for now,
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#478
17-09-06, 06:10
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Hi listers, Can anyone tell me how to post a message in the magazine Carman mentioned, "The Black devils"? It would be so nice to find someone who remembers my uncle.
Is their someone who would look in the Archives of the Winnipeg Free Press to see if they can fin my uncle's obituary. It would be published in 1944. Rfmn. Alfred Martin Peterson H/2430 C company, Royal Winnipeg Rifles Thanks for all the help I have received so far. Thanks also for all the photos I have received, when you see a photos of someone or someplace then you know they or it exists. Carman, so you have moved back to BC. Weather out there is probably easy on the bady. I was born in Winnipeg and lived there till I was 13. Left there in Dec, 1950 when I was 13 a few months after the flood. Pauline
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#479
17-09-06, 06:34
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Hi Pauline,
The magazines name is: "The Devils Blast" ... see the contact information below. I suggest writing/emailing to them and asking about putting an ad in their magazines next issue. Quote:
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#480
31-12-06, 04:47
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Wow. I was just Googling for images for "Beaconia" hping to find new photos online of places and people back home, and look what came up ... Uncle Ed's headstone photo from the wargraves site!!!
http://images.google.ca/images?q=bea...lter=0&ndsp=18 Karmen
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