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Old 21-09-23, 08:06
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Mike Kelly Mike Kelly is offline
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Default Driving in modern traffic

I noticed on a forum recently, a chap in Canada is selling his WW2 Jeep. Main reason given was the problem driving an old , slow vehicle in modern busy traffic.

Just my observations. The amount of cars/traffic on the roads around here has gone up exponentially in the past few years. Driving an older slower vehicle around has become a nightmare to endure, rather than being a enjoyable outing.

Had a fatality just down the road here a few months back , a windy narrow rural road and a 4X4 and inexperienced drivers.

I drove a series 1 Land Rover into the nearest large town twice, I was a nervous wreck battling huge trucks and fast cars on a quiet 'back road'. The Rover now sits unused.
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Old 21-09-23, 15:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kelly View Post
I noticed on a forum recently, a chap in Canada is selling his WW2 Jeep. Main reason given was the problem driving an old , slow vehicle in modern busy traffic.

Just my observations. The amount of cars/traffic on the roads around here has gone up exponentially in the past few years. Driving an older slower vehicle around has become a nightmare to endure, rather than being a enjoyable outing.

Had a fatality just down the road here a few months back , a windy narrow rural road and a 4X4 and inexperienced drivers.

I drove a series 1 Land Rover into the nearest large town twice, I was a nervous wreck battling huge trucks and fast cars on a quiet 'back road'. The Rover now sits unused.
Buy a white scout car... the other road users will steer clear.
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  #3  
Old 21-09-23, 18:21
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Not pleasant at all......

On secondary back road it is not to bad.....lots of rural folks will actually wave at you....... but in busy traffic it is gruesome...... even with the turn signals flashing you get passed on the left just as you begin your left turn.....and now that I have installed the canvass back my field of vision is reduced by 50%.....at least when I was driving the C15a as a roadster without a steel roof and canvass I could see around and see the idiot about to pass me....... I may have to limit my city driving with the canvass to special events or very rural areas........

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  #4  
Old 21-09-23, 22:44
Rob Abbott Rob Abbott is offline
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Default Driving in modern traffic

This is definitely a growing problem in the UK
Driving on A roads and dual carriageway can be pretty dicey - particularly if the weather turns wet and reduces visibility further.
A big risk is HGVs just not seeing you there and coming up on you too quickly.
If I drive a vehicle any distance it will be one of my Jeeps and I've recently adopted an idea from a friend and fitted a removable Orange warning light, using one of the bolts on the spare wheel. It's not a magic cure but it hopefully attracts other drivers attention so that they spot you there at least.
You just unbolt t once you get to your destination/event.
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  #5  
Old 22-09-23, 02:44
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Robin Craig Robin Craig is offline
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Those of you who know me are aware of my strong opinions. I am well known for saying out loud what I feel, without a filter. In Ontario I write for our newsletter and this piece written three years ago echoes the sentiments already stated but I fell it is worth saying again for other further afield.
Quote:
VENT TUBE
An Opinion Column from An Individual By Robin Craig

If nothing else, the year 2020 will be set down in history where the free world lost itself, horribly. You, ladies and gentleman, do not have to follow that disgraceful lead. We live in an era of knee jerk reactions via social media and an incredible sense of entitlement and exemptions to the rule of norm by individuals, “the law doesn’t apply to me because I am special” attitudes abound. The restaurant presents you with a menu, but you want half the items substituted.
While most of us in this hobby are not millennials, we are edging towards absorbing their behaviour it seems.
Let me say, I have been wrong, I have been called out by my peers and shown the errors of my ways more than once.
At this point, those of you who know me, realise that something is under my skin and you know I am going to share my ire.
What am I talking about? The Slow Moving Vehicle Sign or SMV sign. I feel uniquely placed to comment on the use and abuse of this device from the standpoint that I farm for a living and this sign is a requirement of the Highway Traffic Act for the use and operation of the tools of my trade while on the public highway. These tools, of my trade, are more specifically known by the delicious definition of “the implements of husbandry”. Ask a high school graduate what that means without using Google.
This sign is an identifier used around the world, specifically for use by anyone involved in agriculture, and in some cases construction or road building equipment.
Every year on the roads, even on our sleepy little island, there are close calls between farm equipment and other road users. The major cause is speed. The majority of road users have forgotten that one of the primary ground rules of driving is being able to stop within the distance of the driver’s field of vision. The world of advertising does much to conjure up the perception of open roads to be traveled at full speed, all the time. Don’t worry about an obstacle in your path, the latest high tech gadgetry will alert you via some sub-conscious alerting system and apply your brakes and save you. It won’t.
The SMV sign is designed to alert other road users that the vehicle ahead is moving at a speed of less than 40 kilometres an hour. Your distance to slow down and or stop is dramatically decreased because the vehicle in front is moving substantially slower than you. That is the basic premise.
Nowhere does the Highway Traffic Act encourage or allow other road users to use this sign for their own modified purposes. The two that I see so commonly in the military vehicle (MV) world originate out of two separate causes, peoples MVs are not registerable for the road in the first place, or they are not appropriate for the class of road that their owner has put them on to. Again, I refer back to the statement that the law doesn’t apply to you, because you are special in some way, and you are going to use a vehicle that isn’t appropriate for the road because you feel like it is your right to do so. The SMV sign does not make this right, ever. Secondly, driving a beautifully restored and historically accurate World War One Omnibus, capable of a massive 18 miles an hour top speed, down a divided highway in a major metropolitan area is not made safe or appropriate by the adornment of an SMV sign as some kind of magical force field to stop that B train semi with an all up weight of 65 tonnes turning you into a grease spot on the highway, for one day and a tragic headline somewhere. You are going to turn yourself into an exception; you are going to remove yourself from the rest of us who stay living while you go to the cemetery. Get yourself off that road and figure out a safer way to get to your event or don’t go. Period.
Anyone who was involved in some of the convoys down through the US to major events ten or more years ago, will remember the close calls and the need for an escort vehicle. Some might argue that even then it just wasn’t safe and it is only by the grace of a God or entity similar, that someone didn’t die. Over the last few years in Europe there has been about one death every other year in an MV on a major highway where a smaller, darkly painted, dimly lit, slower vehicle is run down by a bigger faster moving vehicle. People, wake up! Your actions are inappropriate and unsafe. You are about to become a sad statistic and a mere memory to the rest of us left behind in the hobby. The addition of an SMV sign won’t save you. Don’t do it. Put it on a trailer, or travel on slower roads and think about having a well-marked and well illuminated escort vehicle behind you, engage with local authorities about having an escort from them if it is possible.
For those of you driving vehicles that the Highway Traffic Act excludes from being allowed on the road, get off the road and stay off. If the road is closed to other road users for a parade, then it is appropriate to be there, that is it. An SMV sign is not an exemption device to allow you to do what you please.
Check your calendars, its 2020, you are not in 1972 anymore. Be safe and stay alive.
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  #6  
Old 22-09-23, 07:28
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
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A few thoughts come to mind after reading Robin's piece. And we know each other quite well, so his voice is clearly in my head now!

I tend to drive my HMV on secondary roads where the speed limit is 80 kph, and unless absolutely necessary, avoid higher speed limit roads. Not for road safety but because I don't want to be the slow poke at the head of long column of frustrated drivers expecting to go faster.

I have an SMV triangle for my spare tire, as I also have a high-visibility vest to drape over the jerry can. The intent is to be noticed by other drivers. I also have an SMV triangle on my galvanized steel utility trailer, because when towing it, I know the top speed will be at the posted limit for controllability.

We know HMVs on the road are a spectacle for others on the road, and they gawk. In the military I used to warn drivers they had to drive their 2 1/2-t truck with all its behaviours and remember to think for the person in their 4-door rattletrap car. There are always stories of drivers spearing their windshields while fixating on the muzzle of a towed 105-mm gun moving from one site to another.

Bob rightly mentions visibility inside the cab and especially with RHD vehicles. Other than beacons lights or illuminated placards, how else are approved road users expected to warn other drivers to share the road?
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  #7  
Old 22-09-23, 13:24
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Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
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All valid points! Next to obvious technical upgrades - see e.g. Streetable CMP truck - one needs to adjust driving habits and style.

Personally I find a Jeep too small to drive onto the main (high)ways, a 3/4-ton truck has much more presence on the road, even if driving slower than most traffic. Having said that, I recall a GMC DUKW was involved in an accident in the UK many years ago. A large car driving at speed hit it from behind, flipping over the DUKW because of its undercut hull shape, and people got killed...
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  #8  
Old 22-09-23, 15:10
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
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Default Road behaviour

I should mention that 'implements of husbandry' signage isn't necessarily a free-pass to do anything on the road. John Grainger and I were moving two vehicles from his yard to an event. Maybe it was Mike Calnan's Canada Day parade? Him in his Iltis, and me following in a diesel 5/4t or CUCV. Head lights on, as is my driving custom. We were moving together but not in close tandem, and approached a wagon piled high with hay bales. It pulled over to the shoulder, and John passed. As I was approaching to pass, the hay wagon pulled across in front of me into an entrance! I locked up the brakes, smoked the tires, even momentarily contemplated taking the ditch! Anything to avoid a collision. I was pleased to avoid damaging someone else's carefully maintained HMV.
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  #9  
Old 24-09-23, 12:37
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Philliphastings Philliphastings is offline
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Default Defensive driving

I donít really know what to say...

Iím an active member of a WW2 Jeep club here in Australia and although I donít currently drive one (At 6í6 and 140 kg Iím building one with custom features) I do travel a fair bit in them

Iím not aware of any actual issues which would cause any of our members to give up driving their Jeeps rain, Hail or shine through hundreds or even thousands of miles of public roads.

As long as one is aware of the vehiclesís limitations and is a diligent and defensive driver accidents are rare.

Of course there are near misses from other less skilled or less caring drivers, but I get that even in my modern Toyota Landcruiser.

Just my thoughts but I do find it sad to think of enthusiasts giving up on their belived vehicles our wonderful hobby out of fear of the unknown.

ĎDrive them Jeepsí

Cheers

Phill
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  #10  
Old 25-09-23, 01:35
Ed Williamson Ed Williamson is offline
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When I drive my GPW I have a red flashing light on the spare tire It is the type that bicycles use. It is an LED light and very bright and I checked with local law and its legal.
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  #11  
Old 25-09-23, 19:51
Paul Singleton Paul Singleton is offline
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Default SMV triangle

Just be aware that it is illegal to display the slow moving vehicle triangle on a vehicle that is capable of a sustained speed of more than 40 kph. When I was still working one of our grass cutting crews was inspected on the roadside. The commercial riding mower was on the trailer with an SMV triangle and the MTO inspector wanted the sign removed or covered so it wasnít visible. The inspector claimed that because the slow moving sign was visible it applies to the truck and trailer also. The SMV sign was a decal on the mower and not removable, so the operator unloaded the mower and loaded it the other way round onto the trailer.
The fine apparently could have been $350!
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  #12  
Old 25-09-23, 21:50
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Singleton View Post
Just be aware that it is illegal to display the slow moving vehicle triangle on a vehicle that is capable of a sustained speed of more than 40 kph. .....
This become a problem for vehicles that are legal on the roads, can travel faster than 40-kph, but not at the maximum speed limit. The in-between solution seems to be a flashing red or yellow light to warn approaching drivers without breaking too many highway traffic act rules.
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  #13  
Old 26-09-23, 15:59
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Robin Craig Robin Craig is offline
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Paul, the situation you mention is very common and MTO inspectors are very hot on that one, some cops are also but it varies. Having worked in the agricultural industry it was a common problem when switching the prime mover for pieces of farm equipment AKA Implements of Husbandry. I agree with their enforcement and the arresting of drift in their usage. We moved spreaders between farms as they were owned by the Ag / Chem suppliers and drawn loaded by tractors but we shuttled them between jobs using pick ups. As a farm we were a commercial business and our pick ups were run under the CVOR program and fines are possible for both the drivers and the company. So displaying an SMV sign and traveling at more than 40 kph was a challenge. We used 2 inch wide rolls of masking tape to obscure the SMV sign that was bolted to the spreader. That was acceptable and a pragmatic solution. To all of you, the rules of the road are there for our joint safety. Our common sense should also aide us in making good decisions. Yes, this is a hobby horse for me,
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  #14  
Old 26-09-23, 17:53
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Barry Churcher Barry Churcher is offline
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I commute 200 km every day to work and back on the 401, the world’s busiest highway. (Wikepedia) I travel at 120 km and the speed limit is 100 km for ALL lanes. I travel in the right lane predominately as the speed in the center lane is 130kph and the hammer lane is 140. There are accidents galore and you are not safe. People drive so erratic everywhere now it is unbelievable. I make a few extra bucks when the combines go down my rural road and take up the whole driving surface. That’s when the citidiots try to sqeeeeze past and end up in the ditch. I get to tow them out with my tractor. I have been stopped twice by the police for having flashing yellow lights. Once with the tow truck with a car on the back but not at an accident and once with my M1010. I was a visual distraction apparently. I was told to shut those lights off. After all that I guess there is no easy answer. Are you willing to take a chance? Les Fisher drives his nice stock Dodge Command Car on the 401 and the toll 407 regularly and other than the odd middle finger has no problems.
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Last edited by Barry Churcher; 26-09-23 at 17:59. Reason: spelling
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