C8 progress in Texas - Page 9

David DeWeese · #**241** 01-11-10, 02:19

Thanks Bob and Phil for the spacer information. I knew something wasn't right there.
Decided it was time to start on the Duple rear body. After one costly attempt at guesstimating the correct dimensions,(one partially built rear body in the scrap bin), Mike Kelly kindly sent me his plans for the Morris version. Many thanks again to you, Mike!

Will still have to figure out how to form the upper sides. My sheetmetal guy says the body sides must have been originally die-stamped, and he was unable to bend the tops. Will think of something...
Anyone have suggestions on how I can replicate rivets? There are many rivets used on this body, and both sides of them will show.
Thanks, David

Bob Carriere · #**242** 01-11-10, 03:23

Hi David

I never had the opportunity to examine closely a cargo box like yours....but I can tell you that the 2B1 box is simply flat stock bent in a pan/box brake. Everything is either 45 or 90 degree bends...... except the head board of the cargo box and the tail gate..... noting is any wider than 40 inches.... all the bits and pieces where the welded or bolted (depending on the model) to create a final assembly.

During the war period a number of small local/back yard shops were making subassemblies by the barrell full....(referred to by economist as cottage industry)... they would receive the raw material... which they would bend, fold, drill and partly assembled as sub components.

Even uniforms were created in subassemblies..... my grandmother would do pockets for pants or coats in OD cotton.... but her specialty was sowing braids..... she would get rolls of braids used by Lance corporal, corporal and sergeant.... she would cut them to size and sow them on a wollen felt backing..... by the thousand using an old home threadle type Singer machine.
For years into the fifties all our wool blankets were hemmed in Corporal stripes either Green or airforce blue....

Back to your box...... try making a mock up using light cardboard..... figure out where and how the bends have to be done..... a certain sequence is required to be able to reach into tight bends.....

I intend to repro my rusted 2B1....plans are to precut everything with the plasma cutter and have a local fabricator do the bends as the sheet metal is 12 gauge and 14 gauge...... then we will adjust with grinders and weld....

Rivets are rivets and maybe hard to duplicate with out actually riviting if both sides are visible..... but you could use aluminium and air powered hammers...make sure your friends are heavy enough to hold the bucking bar...

Bob

David DeWeese · #**243** 01-11-10, 06:21

Hi Bob,
The problem is in bending up the top area with the small curve, along with all the other bends, to make one complete body side. In fact, my sheetmetal guy can't make the top piece at all because of the tight roll and such small dimensions.
Maybe I need a new sheetmetal guy.... Plans courtesy of Mike Kelly.
Thanks, David

gordon · #**244** 01-11-10, 09:49

That top edge looks like you'd have to make it in three sections and join it, which would be no fun. If your sheetmetal guy could make it in two pieces, upright with round section, and flat side with turned edge, that would be less hassle to join?

I think you might have the wrong handle on making imitation rivets too, especially if they are just 1/4" I had the same problem with my K-38 trailer which is almost all rivetted construction.

I ended up making the trailer repairs in sections which were bolted together, then I just bought a small cheap air hammer and adapted hand tooling for rivet set and snap ( E-Bay, cheap ) to take the air hammer end.

After a bit of practice I was able to replace all of the bolts with original rivets.

Gordon

David DeWeese · #**245** 03-11-10, 02:21

Hi Gordon,
OK, will stick with real rivets on this project. Never done them before, but never too old to learn....

A local industrial supply business has all needed materials in stock, so will grab some and practice a while on some scrap pieces first.
Thanks, David

Bob Carriere · #**246** 03-11-10, 02:48

Hi David

I now appreciate the magnitude of your repro problem....... why the H&^%* would they design it like that in the first place...... I am sure it gives the whole side piece more ridgidity but short of a die stamping operation it's a night mare to replicate...... the top part could be done in three pieces and tig butt welded but what a night mare.....doomed to warp with heat.....

How un-original would it be to do a flat top bend like other boxes of the period.... sure glad my 2B1 is stupid simple...... and I might cheat by using one gauge lighter all around..... after all I don't intend to over load it.

Good luck with the rivets and don't forget to show us how you made out....

Bob C.

Mike Kelly · #**247** 03-11-10, 03:04

David

It should be possible to make the sides in one piece without much trouble . I can email better pics if you need them. Make a up a die former out of a length of pipe and use a press.

QUITE OFTEN i CAME ACROSS A ROAD BLOCK, when building the 1a1 BODY... i WAS TOLD " NO WAY TO DO THAT " BUT YES, IT COULD BE DONE .... MOST OF THEM WERE TOO LAZY OR NOT INTERESTED IN FOLDING UP STUFF. i ENDED UP doing some myself and the complex stuff .. I found a great place at Morwell who were very good .

Mike

Mike Kelly · #**248** 03-11-10, 03:07

Can somebody scan the duple bodied c8 pic , in greggs 8 cwt profile .. And post it on this thread

thanks

Bob Carriere · #**249** 03-11-10, 03:18

Hi Mike

The 1A2 or the 1B1......????...... and the dimension picture or the actual photo of same....... none are laid out so to see the curved surface of the top section of side panels.....

Bob C.

Mike Kelly · #**250** 03-11-10, 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Hi Mike

The 1A2 or the 1B1......????...... and the dimension picture or the actual photo of same....... none are laid out so to see the curved surface of the top section of side panels.....

Bob C.

BOB

there is a pic ( not drawing ) of a DUPLE ( British ) bodied C8 , in the Gregg profile on 8 cwt's..... The caption says its British bodied . You will spot it .. put on your reading glasses

MIKE

cletrac (RIP) · #**251** 03-11-10, 04:52

How's this?

Mike Kelly · #**252** 04-11-10, 01:46

Thats the one David ..THANKS

My first C8 was Z4544183.. close to that one pictured

David in Texas: To make the sides , you will have to make up a small press using scrap metal and a auto bottle jack ... bolt this to your bench .

First , fold up the sides and for the top edge , fold in the basic L shape as per the drawing , but without the curved section .

You can make a simple die from a 12" length of hardwood , or metal, your choice ... It only needs to be 12 " long as you go along and press down onto it slowly astep at a time along the whole lehgth of the side panel.

Slide the die into the L section you formed in a folder, and go along and press a short length of pipe down onto the die .... the pipe needs the correct diameter for the curve .

After its done, hit over the short edge per the drawing , again you can use the same die , if its made to the correct dimensions .

As its only 1.2mm guage your using , its pretty easy to do this job

MIKE

David DeWeese · #**253** 22-11-10, 02:35

Hi,
After two failed attempts at making the tops of the body sides to my liking, I decided to go to "plan B". Not original, but gets me out of a three weekend rut and allows me to move on with the project.....
Have piles of 1 5/8" x 1 5/8" Unistrut here that had sparked my interest.
Used the plasma cutter to cut off one of the curled edges the length of the rail, notched it to fit my end angle iron pieces on the body and welded on an end cap.
Looks good, is strong and gives the body sides a nice finished edge, but has no curve for the tubing top canvas structure. Bolted this piece on along the body sides, so it can be removed easily later if a better option is found.
Thanks, David

gordon · #**254** 22-11-10, 11:01

You need to move on and come back to that when you get a chance, something will turn up.

G

( on a separate note I checked the one "VC" pickup rear fender I have here and it is an ordinary civilian one, but at least I can get on with repairing and fitting that while I wait for it's partner to ship from you. I'll probably open out the wheel opening to match the VC spec before I fit it. )

Keith Webb · #**255** 22-11-10, 19:23

Hi David, looks like you had assistance from a certain Colonel...

Quote:

Originally Posted by David DeWeese

Hi,
After two failed attempts at making the tops of the body sides to my liking, I decided to go to "plan B". Not original, but gets me out of a three weekend rut and allows me to move on with the project.....
Have piles of 1 5/8" x 1 5/8" Unistrut here that had sparked my interest.
Used the plasma cutter to cut off one of the curled edges the length of the rail, notched it to fit my end angle iron pieces on the body and welded on an end cap.
Looks good, is strong and gives the body sides a nice finished edge, but has no curve for the tubing top canvas structure. Bolted this piece on along the body sides, so it can be removed easily later if a better option is found.
Thanks, David

David DeWeese · #**256** 23-11-10, 02:53

Hi Gordon,
The parts should be there fairly quick as the guy who picked them up said they would be shipped along with that car for Erik ASAP.
Having more than enough Dodge pickup rear fenders is always a good thing!

Hi Keith,
Yes, me and Mr. Sanders have built a lasting relationship.
His chicken is actually a great multi-purpose food: It tastes good, and if applied evenly to bare metal surfaces is a great rust prevenative!

Thanks, David

gordon · #**257** 23-11-10, 09:33

I'll bet it stands out in a crowd in Texas, smaller than the average family pickup down your direction I suppose.

I'd be helping out with parts if I could, but Canadian stuff is getting increasingly rare round here, and only 13 cab stuff was ever 'common'

Back to the garage

Alex Blair (RIP) · #**258** 23-11-10, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by David DeWeese

Hi Gordon,
The parts should be there fairly quick as the guy who picked them up said they would be shipped along with that car for Erik ASAP.
Having more than enough Dodge pickup rear fenders is always a good thing!

Hi Keith,
Yes, me and Mr. Sanders have built a lasting relationship.
His chicken is actually a great multi-purpose food: It tastes good, lubes the ole' intestines, and if applied evenly to bare metal surfaces is a great rust prevenative!

Thanks, David

david..
KFC is also what the pest control people around here use to trap rats..they can't resist it..I have used it my self for that purpose./..Works like a damned..
Nice work on the truck.

Jim Price · #**259** 25-11-10, 03:22

David,
Your top rail of the bed looks great! Wish I'd though about doing it your way.

I was in a quandry when I went to attach the frame to the bed of my F8 so simply welded some tabs to the edge of both sides and bolted the frames to the tabs. The attached pictures should tell the story better than I can describe it!

Regards,
Jim

David DeWeese · #**260** 25-11-10, 07:53

Gordon,
Yes, the C8 is certainly very different from anything around here. The MV guys don't really know what to say about it either. Am aiming for taking it to Brent Mullins Open House in the spring.....

Alex,
All I can say is billions of vermin can't all be wrong.

Jim,
Came to a sobering conclusion that the small details on these trucks are certainly wasted on the folks here in the US.
Someone will still probably come up to you at some point and say "Hey, nice Jeep!"

Thanks, David

jaap de wit · #**261** 28-11-10, 11:58

He David
what a very nice job your doing with that rearbody, excellent work man.
keep up the nice work.

cheers jaap

David DeWeese · #**262** 06-12-10, 02:31

Thanks for the kind words, Jaap.
Did some woodworking this weekend on the rear body. This type body uses tongue-and-groove lumber for the front panel, floor and tailgate, and maybe some in the lower lockers also.
Haven't worked with wood much, but was able to make the lumber after a few failed attempts. Still have to bolt it all to the front panel....
Had a setback in that the Chevrolet Blazer rear axle I installed will be too wide once the rear fenders are put in their correct place.

The problem didn't become noticeable until the rear body was on...
Think I have found a suitable, cost effective replacement for it, though.
Thanks, David

Phil Waterman · #**263** 06-12-10, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by David DeWeese

Thanks for the kind words, Jaap.
.......
Had a setback in that the Chevrolet Blazer rear axle I installed will be too wide once the rear fenders are put in their correct place.

The problem didn't become noticeable until the rear body was on...
Think I have found a suitable, cost effective replacement for it, though.
Thanks, David

Hi David

Your problem of the axle housing being to wide raises and interesting issue for any of us who discover that we must come up with an new axle housing or differential unit if a CMP replacement is not available.

Over the years I have broken both rear axle shafts on my HUP. The first one I was able to replace through the kind help of another MLUer who found one and shipped it down from Canada. When I broke the second one, no replacement was readily available so I went the route of a Hot Rod machine shop that builds/produces axle shafts fore race cars. Result was a CMP axle rated up to 400 hp.

Which leads me to my point have you taken a look at having the Blazer housing narrowed to the correct width and then having the axle shafts shorted or new ones made?

I'll dig out the name of the company that machined up my axle shaft think they are in Colorado. Found the link to the company http://www.markwilliams.com/

Also it goes almost without saying the pictures of project are showing really good work.

David DeWeese · #**264** 07-12-10, 03:30

Hi Phil,
Thanks for the link!
Thought about having the Blazer housing and axles narrowed, but is very expensive from what I've been told.
After some research, I came up with a solution I think:
Isuzu pickups came stock with a 5.5" on six lug bolt pattern, the same as GM trucks up until the mid 60's.
You might say "yuck, a Jap axle under a domestic truck!" Well, some of these trucks,(the US made ones only), in the 90's came with GM 10-bolt axles from the factory. I happen to have a GM-10 bolt rear axle under the C8 at the moment.
Measured my screwed up original C8 axle and it is only 1/4 inch wider than the Isuzu ones, and they're plentiful and only about $150 complete at the local wrecking yards. Can even use my current driveshaft. Will have to cut and reposition the spring perches to fit the C8, though.
Am going tomorrow to pick one up and we'll see.... it's only time and money.

Thanks, David

David DeWeese · #**265** 12-12-10, 21:47

Hi.
Bought a rear axle assembly from a US-built '91 Isuzu Rodeo that was equipped with the GM drivetrain. Wasn't easy to find the correct one as the wrecking yards didn't know one from another and Isuzu used several different rear axle assemblies over the years. After laying under about 20 trucks with a tape measure I finally got lucky...
Axle assembly fit like a glove once the spring perches were cut off and repositioned. Width was much better as you can see from the before and after photos. Came with a 4.30:1 gear ratio.
Also finally found a pair of trailer fenders that will work well with the rear body.
Thanks, David

Alex Blair (RIP) · #**266** 13-12-10, 01:34

Dave..
You are a dedicated craftsman..a thing of beauty..nice job..
You gotta love it to do what we do and I can see you are truely in love.
No way else for me to describe what we do..
Some better than others ..
Well done.

David DeWeese · #**267** 14-12-10, 04:59

Hi Alex.
Can't say I love the lil' bastard, but I can say I've kept it around much longer than my last two wives.....lol

Thanks, David

David DeWeese · #**268** 20-12-10, 04:17

Hi,
Spent today making more tongue-and-groove lumber for the floor of the rear body, and installing it. This was very time consuming as the boards had to fit together exactly and the body must be very "square" for the floor pieces to fit correctly.
I realized I hate working with wood. Still have a tailgate to do.

Thanks, David

Bob Carriere · #**269** 21-12-10, 03:53

What kind of wood are you using....? Are you using a table mounted router to cut your grooves...? are you panning to paint before final assembly..?

Bob

David DeWeese · #**270** 21-12-10, 05:06

Hi Bob,
Used white pine for the boards.
Bought one of those adjustable width dado blades from Harbor Freight and installed it on a table saw for the joints. Once you get it dialed-in it works well, but boards have to be very straight, plus the wider the boards are the harder it is to get the grooves right. A hammer and wood block still had to be used to get them together...
Will dissasemble the wood and paint all the edges before painting the body.
Thanks, David