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  #1  
Old 22-12-17, 01:03
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default Wireless Set No. 52 Canadian - Project

Well I never said I was the smartest person on the planet and waiting over 30 years to even consider starting a project like this definitely pushes me rather firmly to the other end of the spectrum, but…here we go.

The goal of this project is to assemble a complete basic Wireless Set No. 52 Canadian, restore all the bits to working order and then get it back on the air.
The attached photo shows quite clearly what I am starting with in my Wireless Room... nearly nothing. I say nearly, because the observant among you will notice there is a canvas bag hanging on the wall that I only learned recently is actually the Aerial Bag for the 52-Set that holds it's F Rods. It currently holds the two sets of said rods for my two 19-Sets so will soon need a No. 2 Brown set of F Rods added for a 52-Set. In any event, this little canvas bag, for better or worse, is my starting point.

Clearly, updates on this thread have the potential to be few and far between, but it is what it is. May the Wireless God smile upon me!

David
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  #2  
Old 26-12-17, 19:09
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Well a quick look in the canvas Aerial Bag revealed three 'F' rod Sets. One green and two in No. 2 Brown, so both my 19-Sets and any future WS-Set No. 52 are covered.

I was feeling pretty good about that, and then this arrived in the mail. Yes, it is a Wireless Set No. 52 Canadian Main Receiver.Serial Number on the Data Plate is 8349. I didn't realized they had run that high.

Initial observations show the Slow Motion Drive assembly for the Frequency Dial is missing. I think this item is identical to the one used on the 19-Set Mk III, so I should be able to track down a complete one with mounting screw. Also noticed the PHONES decal that should run vertically to the right of the two phone sockets in the lower right corner was 'missing', but when shining a torch along the face of the panel, I can see it has simply been very professionally painted over.

There is no sign the three pocket watch holder screw holes have ever held a watch holder, front or back of the panel.

The only truly odd thing about the panel at the moment is that it has three chassis pull knobs, rather than the usual two. What appears to be the third pull knob has been mounted between the meter and frequency dial assembly. Further investigation will be needed on that one.

A quick internal look shows the usual amount of dust accumulation, no noticible rust anywhere and all valves are in place, though as yet untested.

The other thing that popped out was I am going to have to identify the correct type of hardware used in the four mounting brackets when the receiver is secured into the Carriers No. 4. The few sketchy photos I have seen suggest that some form of low profile hex headed bolt was used. the heads look about half as thick as a standard hex bolt.

So I guess the adventure has now officially begun.


David
Attached Thumbnails
WS-52 Cdn Main Receiver.JPG   WS-52 Chassis Rear View.JPG   WS-52 PHONES Decal overpainted.JPG  

Last edited by David Dunlop; 26-12-17 at 19:14.
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  #3  
Old 27-12-17, 18:47
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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The two Zuss fasteners that hold the upper access panel of the receiver in place are made by a company called 'Airloc'. interestingly, the two on this receiver panel are the same shape, but one has the company name stamped into it in capital, block letters, with the number 160. the other one has the company name stamped in a written script style, with the number 150.

David
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Old 27-12-17, 19:00
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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I took a closer look at the crystal calibrator setup in the 52-Set Receiver this morning and compared it to the crystal calibrator Marconi developed for the Wireless Set No. 19. As you can see, a very similar appearance between them, although the one for the 19-Set is much more compact.

Since, as I recall, the Mk I and Mk II 19-Sets lacked a slow motion drive for their tuning, and this finally showed up with the Canadian Mk III production, I wonder if this slow motion drive was adopted directly from the 52-Set design from Marconi, and pushing this curiosity back a bit further, did any of the Wireless Set No.9 series have a built in crystal calibrator and slow motion tuning drive? Just thinking these two items might have been part of the upgrades Marconi had developed for their Wireless Set No. 9 Mk III that became the 52-Set.

David
Attached Thumbnails
WS-52 Calibrator Controls.JPG   WS-19 Calibrator Controls.JPG   Calibrator Chassis Comparison.JPG  
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  #5  
Old 28-12-17, 00:53
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post

Initial observations show the Slow Motion Drive assembly for the Frequency Dial is missing. I think this item is identical to the one used on the 19-Set Mk III, so I should be able to track down a complete one with mounting screw.
The drive assembly is in multiple parts, and semi-common to a number of sets.

The spring and its mounting bracket is the same as used on the WS18 and WS19 - one of those "multi-purpose part" items.

Either of the drive assemblies (single knob as used on WS19 Mk.I or Mk.II, or the later "dual knob with reduction drive" as fitted to the Mk.III) will fit.

It's somewhat of a fiddle to fit the drive assembly (possibly why yours is missing - once removed it's awkward to re-fit), as there's a actuator rod that is part of the Flick mechanism that needs to engage with the drive mechanism to force it downwards when the flick lever is set to FLICK, thereby disengaging it from the rim of the dial plate.

The "Condenser Drive Assembly" is something of a bugger to work on, and usually was supplied already attached to the replacement condenser to save time, effort, and a lot of swearing on the part of the wireless mechanics.

Chris.
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  #6  
Old 28-12-17, 01:53
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Thanks for jogging my memory about those Flick systems, Chris. It has been a long while since I swapped out a 19-Set front panel and I had forgotten about how integrated the tuning drive and flick linkage is behind the panel. Also very hard to see everything in back.

I checked the linkage and noticed the lack of tension in the flick lever, as well as the fact the two frequency indicator flags were not moving fully back and forth. Hopefully, everything behind the scenes is still there and just missing the drive assembly properly installed. Will know for sure once I disassemble the complete dial assembly and get a better look. Hopefully, if anything is found missing, it will match up with 19-Set bits.

Hope Father Christmas was good to you.

Cheers,

David
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  #7  
Old 29-12-17, 05:42
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Chris. I took a quick look behind the panel and discovered both Arms, Flick Control No. 1 and No.2, with all their related hardware are there and intact.

It is the Arms, Flick Control No. 2 that travels down to engage the dial drive assembly. When the drive assembly is removed, the No. 2 Arm is under tension from it’s Hair Spring which causes it to swing up to the left (looking at the front of the panel) up behind the large dial wheel. If you are not aware of the No. 2 Arm being there in the first place, it is hard to find.

You are correct, it is a bit of a trained octopus job getting the No. 2 Arm back down to the bottom right side of the Drive mounting hole and keeping it there while you get the stud on the drive to engage its slot on the Arm, engage and apply tension to the Drive Spring and keep all of that in place while running the mounting screw home.

Worth at least two pints when you’re all done!

David
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  #8  
Old 02-01-18, 05:26
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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I have started to notice the vast majority, if not all, of the wiring in this receiver is white loomed, with or without tracers. I have also noticed the circuit diagrams I have so far, show little or no loom identification on them, as compared to the 19-Set circuit diagrams. By comparison as well, the 19-Set wiring was very much multicoloured, with or without traces.

Where colour references show up so far appears to be limited to the terminal layouts for the various switch wafers, and I am assuming these colour references simply mean the tracer colour. Am I correct in this analysis?

There is a lacquer coating over much of the wiring which has yellowed somewhat over time. And of course, some of the wiring has yellow tracers on it. Gets a bit challenging in some locations identifying plain white wiring and white with yellow tracer. Yikes!

David
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  #9  
Old 03-01-18, 02:54
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Robert Bergeron Robert Bergeron is offline
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David,

Nice set .

When were they in use in the Canadian Army ?

When was yours made ? I see faintly a 1944 date.

At what command level were they used ?

Any mobile installations ? Trucks, trailers ?

Happy New Year.

All the best.


Robert
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44 C-15-A Wire 5 with 2K1
44 U.C. No-2 MKII*
42 F-15-A GS
10 Cwt Cdn
M100 Cdn
M101 Cdn2

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  #10  
Old 03-01-18, 03:08
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron View Post

At what command level were they used ?

Any mobile installations ? Trucks, trailers ?


Robert
Div sigs. used 52 sets as a ground station or in 60cwt Command Low Power Lorries (and in 15cwt wireless trucks and C15TA's). Post war they were used in conjunction with C42 sets in Dodge M152 wireless vans. In these, they were mounted just behind the wall separating the cab from the body and crews had to crawl underneath the table to get from one side to the other (or go outside of course).
Attached Thumbnails
SIG3.JPG   M152 Interior.JPG  

Last edited by Bruce Parker; 03-01-18 at 03:39.
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  #11  
Old 03-01-18, 14:39
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Awesome David , many thanks
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44 GPW
44 C-15-A Wire 5 with 2K1
44 U.C. No-2 MKII*
42 F-15-A GS
10 Cwt Cdn
M100 Cdn
M101 Cdn2

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  #12  
Old 05-01-18, 21:59
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Bruce,

What references do you have for the WS52s being used in the 15-cwt Wireless and the C15TA? I'm happy to update my vehicle pages but want to have eyes on the references. Thanks.
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  #13  
Old 06-01-18, 16:39
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Quick question regarding the FREQENCY MC Label above the tuning dial.

Between the Red and Blue Flick Indicator windows are the letters A and B. Are these two letters also painted red and blue, or should they be white? I have seen both formats, but not in enough quantity to determine which is correct, or if both are, depending on time if production.

David
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Old 06-01-18, 20:19
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post
Quick question regarding the FREQENCY MC Label above the tuning dial.

Between the Red and Blue Flick Indicator windows are the letters A and B. Are these two letters also painted red and blue, or should they be white? I have seen both formats, but not in enough quantity to determine which is correct, or if both are, depending on time if production.

David
They are red and blue on a white background. I expect they are decals.

Joe, I looked for photo's of 52 sets in 2K1 wireless bodies (15cwt trucks) and the C15TA with no luck. My comments are based on pictures I've seen in the past, probably at the old Sigs museum in Kingston. If I recall, the 15cwt was postwar.
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  #15  
Old 07-01-18, 02:00
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Gee, Bruce. You do realize now, that there are three variations of this decal apparently out there.

- All black between the two colour coded Flick Indicator rings, with a White A and B.

- All black between the two colour coded Flick Indicator rings, with a red A and a blue B.

- A white rectangle between the two colour coded Flick Indicator rings, with a red A and a blue B.

I knew this wasn’t going to be an easy project.

David
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  #16  
Old 08-01-18, 00:47
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Well, a final close inspection of this Receiver chassis shows it to be in very good condition with only two wiring issues turning up and one missing valve shield cap. Valves not yet tested, however.

I have a wire on the ground side of the speaker that has broken free from the Meter Switch. This should be a simple resolder job once the correct terminal to attach it to on the switch has been confirmed.

On a more serious note, the middle terminal wafer on the Mode of Operation switch has been shattered. These switches were designed to be taken apart for situations such as this. Just need to determine best repair/replacement option. Dealing with the middle wafer only involves 6 soldered terminals to deal with. To replace the entire switch means dealing with 23 soldered terminals.

David
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Old 10-01-18, 17:41
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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The power socket on the back of the 52-Set receiver has 7 clips in it.

Can anyone post a photo of the corresponding plug on the Remote Receiver Supply cable? I am guessing there are fewer than 7 tabs on the cable plug since when the receiver is in remote mode, the transmitter and main set PSU connections would be irrelevant.

I am trying to sort out the various circuit diagrams this morning, when compared with reality, and I don’t think the coffee is kicking in yet.

David
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  #18  
Old 10-01-18, 18:52
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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I think you need +12V, +250V, Aerial and Earth/Chassis.

The remote receiver cable has an aerial terminal on the back of the plug and a cable to the AC/vibrator supply unit.

(Not that I've ever seen one in real life.)

Chris.
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Old 10-01-18, 19:27
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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That was my thought as well, Chris.

The Remote Supply output is through a three tab Jones plug setup and I was thinking the +12 and the +150 (lower HT value) were two likely candidates, along with a ground circuit.

When I compare the tab layout on the Supply Cable I have, two tabs indeed match up with the +12 and +150 clips on the receiver socket. However, the third tab on the cable plug goes into a dead space with no designated clip on the receiver socket.

No sign of Bubba being at the receiver, but maybe he was playing with the cable at some point. Adding to the puzzle, there are no labels on the cable plug tabs to ID them.

David
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  #20  
Old 10-01-18, 19:43
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Maybe you don't have a remote receiver?

I have some stripped-out sockets downstairs and will have a look later tonight - they have decals with the connection details on them.

Chris.
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  #21  
Old 10-01-18, 20:17
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Thanks, Chris.

When I read through the manual, I was left with the impression the Main Set Receiver and the Remote Receiver were virtually interchangeable. The only difference was the wording on their respective data plates. Wouldn’t be the first time I have been confused, however.

David
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  #22  
Old 10-01-18, 22:39
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Well, another 45 minutes of research and I think I have it sorted out.

As Chris stated, one needs +12 and the lower HT voltage (+150) feed, along with a suitable Ground/Earth connection to make the Remote Supply and the 52-Set Receiver play nice with each other. So basically three connections, either end.

The Supply Connector Cable assembly does, indeed have three tabs inside it at the receiver end box. Two feed the required plus voltages to the set. The third one goes nowhere at the receiver. Turns out this is absolutely correct for the 52-Set. Ground/Earth between the 52-Set Receiver and Remote Supply is achieved by the long burled locking screw that secures the Connector Plug to the Receiver Socket.

The mystery third tab in the Connector Cable Plug, going nowhere, is also correct. It feeds to the Aerial Terminal on the end of the Connector Cable Plug. Turns out the Connector Cable (CMC 106-560) was developed by Marconi for the Wireless Set No. 9 Mk I Cdn for it’s remote receiver. In that particular No. 9 Set Remote Receiver, that Aerial Terminal tab in the Connector Cable is functional. Totally redundant for the 52-Set Remote Receiver, but more efficient for Marconi not to bother changing the design.

Apparently there is a colour difference, however. If the cover on the back of the Remote Supply Connector Cable plug is wrinkle green, the cable was built for the WS No. 9 Mk I. If it is No. 2 Brown, the cable was part of 52-Set Cdn production.

As long as the Connector Cable is a CMC 106-560, it is good for either wireless set.

David
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  #23  
Old 10-01-18, 23:11
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Ah, right... that explains my confusion.

Ron (M0WSN) has a Canadian WS9 remote receiver and has been looking for the connecting cable for a while. I thought I'd solved that problem with a box of WS52 bits from an auction, but the connectors are from the units and not the case.

I found the connectors and they're off a sender, so no use to man nor beast.

Chris.
(Also spent some time rummaging through the EMERs, trying to find the Remote Receiver section, with no success.)
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  #24  
Old 13-01-18, 02:47
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default Gas Filled Discharge Gap

While doing a visual inspection of the chassis a little earlier, I spotted what I initially assumed was an old style solid fuse and clips assembly linked between the two Aerial Terminals and Ground. It seemed like a very odd place for a fuse initially but I didn't think much more of it, other than to make note to get back to it later and clean it off to see what rating information it was marked with. It was about 2.25 inches long and .375 inches wide. Standard fuse end caps and a brownish tan central body.

Well this afternoon I went back in to clean it up and have a closer look. Started wiping away the crude on the main body and was very surprised to discover a mirrored glass cylinder staring back at me, as per attached photo. I also became very reluctant to attempt removal of the item in case it broke.

My first thought was since it was glass, perhaps it had markings on it similar to those on glass valves, so I carefully applied some downward pressure to the nearest end cap in its clip. The oxidation accumulation between the clip and the end caps broke free and the cylinder could be slowly rotated in the clips. No markings to be found on the glass or anywhere on either end cap.

Next stop…the Circuit Diagram. A quick look at the Aerial Circuit finds a pair of small outlined half circles, curved sides facing each other across a small gap, and the words "DISCHARGE GAP" written next to it. A look at the components listed on the diagram shows no part identified as such.

So off to the main components listing in the 52-Set Manual. Nothing listed there either. Last possibility was to read through the Receiver section of the manual. And there it is, a very cryptic comment that a "gas filled discharge gap will be found linking the two aerial posts to ground".

All very well and good, but I cannot find much at all online about them, or there use in radio aerial circuits in receivers. More importantly, if one of these happens to break or stop working, how will one find a replacement? I am assuming two possibilities: (a) this item was simply missed in the components listings for the Wireless Set No. 52, or, (b) these things are tougher than God's Toenails and nobody at Marconi ever expected them to fail or break.

Can anyone shed any light on them? It might also be part of the WS No. 9 design and covered in those manuals (I'm hoping) or it was entirely new to the 52-Set design.


David
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  #25  
Old 13-01-18, 08:56
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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The Canadian Marconi CSR5 receiver also uses this device. It's purpose is to protect the receiver front end from damage by HV static. The one used in that receiver is described as:
antenna discharge gap Admiralty Pattern Type 8431 C.G.E.

It breaks down at 100V. It has no effect on the operation of the set. I suspect that as both sets were made by Marconi it could be the same part number.

I would guess that unlike a fuse it is a reusable part.
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Old 13-01-18, 11:28
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce MacMillan View Post
The Canadian Marconi CSR5 receiver also uses this device. It's purpose is to protect the receiver front end from damage by HV static. The one used in that receiver is described as:
antenna discharge gap Admiralty Pattern Type 8431 C.G.E.

It breaks down at 100V. It has no effect on the operation of the set. I suspect that as both sets were made by Marconi it could be the same part number.

I would guess that unlike a fuse it is a reusable part.
Having noticed it on the circuit diagram while rummaging for the connector details further up the thread, it appears on the circuit diagram as "Spark Gap" and is noted in FZ522:

RECEIVER

R.F. Amplifier V1A (ARP3)

30. The input to the tuned R.F. amplifier is
taken from the P.A. tank circuit in the
sender. When the sender tank circuit is
tuned to the receiver frequency its resonant
characteristics contribute to the image
frequency attennuation and slightly to the
sensitivity. A gas-filled discharge gap,
SG1, is connected across the input terminals.

Under "Miscellaneous" in the receiver parts list it's described as:

"SG1 100W. neon discharge gap".

(I assume the 100W is a typo for 100V.)

Chris.
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Old 13-01-18, 19:26
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Chris.

It seems a number of USAAF Command Set Receivers also used these Neon Tubes in their Aerial circuits as protection from 'external static discharge from either the aircraft or atmospheric sources". They were rated at about 60V.

David
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  #28  
Old 13-01-18, 19:49
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
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Default Two New Additions This Week

Rummaging in a 19-Set Parts Bin the other day and found an NOS Microphone, Hand, No. C3 I had forgotten about. It is now in the bits pile for any future Sender for the 52-Set.

A Remote Receiver and Case also arrived in the mail. Serial Number on the ID Plate is 7746 built in 1944.

A UHF Socket was added to the rear of the case, below the Connector Socket and a small hole drilled into the case to the right of the Connector Socket. I have since removed the UHF bit and its half of three feet of wire. The other half is still attached to the upper Aerial Terminal inside the set. Interestingly, the Gas Filled Discharge Gap is missing from its clips in this receiver.

The clip at the "R" position inside the Connector Socket at the rear of the receiver is missing. The broken screw shaft is still visible in the bakelite.

A small dent exists in the lower front edge of the case, just to the right of the Pull Knob below the Speaker.

The other interesting thing is the presence of a white "NON-LUMINOUS DIAL" decal centered between the Speaker and the Meter.

Sure nice to have two receiver chassis available for detailed comparisons now.

More on this Remote Receiver as the project unfolds.


David
Attached Thumbnails
WS-52 Microphone Hand No. C3.JPG   WS-52 Remote Receiver A.JPG   WS-52 Remote Receiver B.JPG   WS-52 Remote Receiver C.JPG   WS-52 Remote Receiver D.JPG  

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  #29  
Old 13-01-18, 23:56
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post

On a more serious note, the middle terminal wafer on the Mode of Operation switch has been shattered. These switches were designed to be taken apart for situations such as this. Just need to determine best repair/replacement option. Dealing with the middle wafer only involves 6 soldered terminals to deal with. To replace the entire switch means dealing with 23 soldered terminals.

David
The 'Second to Fourth Echelon' EMER (F 524) has the wiring diagrams for the switch wafers, complete with wire colour codes. This may well be helpful.

Chris.
(I also note that it has a section on "Dismantling the Flick mechanism" (though not how to reassemble it from the resulting heap of small parts). I may have to write another article at some point.)
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  #30  
Old 14-01-18, 00:05
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post

The clip at the "R" position inside the Connector Socket at the rear of the receiver is missing. The broken screw shaft is still visible in the bakelite.
The 'R' position is not needed for the Remote Receiver - it's the transmit/receive relay line and the relay grounds the aerial input in the receiver and mutes the audio amplifier (via the -1200V line that provides cathode bias to the PA stage.) (It doesn't have -1200 volts on it, just the 813 cathode bias voltage, I assume.)

If you need a spare connector I can post you the ones I have here as a source for spare contacts - the contacts are retained by a screw and nut so should be easy to swap out.

Chris.
(Who will eventually get to the Post Office - honest!)
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